View Poll Results: Are we really born with inalienable rights?

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Thread: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    You are presuming that all rights are inherently "inalienable" rights. That presumption is demonstrably false, for if all rights were inalienable, then no man would have any power to bind his fellow man--there could be no constraint, no law, and thus no society. While some rights must be inalienable, other rights must not be inalienable.


    Society cannot exist without the inalienable right to life.

    Every creature desires to live; that is the order of things. Society is the instinctive mechanism by which mankind proposes to best satiate his desire to live. All social animals, when deprived of the community, do not thrive; Man, being a social animal, needs society to live.

    Thus, society is an expression of the desire to live, and the laws of society are predicated on assuring life to the individual man. Indeed, you will not find in any society a corpus of law that is dismissive of the individual man's desire to live.

    Moreover, if the members of a society do not take pains to preserve the lives of that society's members, that society will not sustain. Life is always a precarious proposition; if we are dismissive of each other's desires for life, if we stand idle when the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune conspire to take away life, then, in time, we will all perish, and so will our society. As Benjamin Franklin observed most sardonically, "we must all hang together, or most assuredly we will all hang separately."

    Thus it is that any society, if it is to endure, must take pains to preserve the lives of its members. Thus it is that, in every society, a man must have an inalienable right to life, for to argue otherwise is invariably to argue the dissolution of society.
    Some places being a victim of rape alienates an individual's right to live.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    If you can accept the concept of what inalienable rights are, why cant you understand that it is a violation anytime a force - whether it be a democratic government or a dictatorship of oligarchs deprives men of those rights?
    Its only a violation in a place where rights are commonplace. In a place where it is non-existent, what we may see as an abuse of a right may not be seen as such in that country where rights are non-existent.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  3. #23
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Society cannot exist without the inalienable right to life.
    No, society exists because some men are survivors, and those who are not, do not exist with us today. Who says we have the right to life? If we did, we wouldn't be forced, as part of natures system, to fight for survival and ensure that very life exists. If it was a natural right, wouldn't life come without a fight to ensure it remains as such?
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-16-09 at 09:09 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Its only a violation in a place where rights are commonplace. In a place where it is non-existent, what we may see as an abuse of a right may not be seen as such in that country where rights are non-existent.
    This is true. I hear in Afghanistan you can starve your wife if she won't put out.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  5. #25
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Its only a violation in a place where rights are commonplace. In a place where it is non-existent, what we may see as an abuse of a right may not be seen as such in that country where rights are non-existent.
    My concept & the inherent concept of natural rights remains consistent regardless of any regime foreign or domestic that legitimizes the deprivation of them.

  6. #26
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    My concept & the inherent concept of natural rights remains consistent regardless of any regime foreign or domestic that legitimizes the deprivation of them.
    Would you even know you had those rights if someone never told you? No. Because they don't exist.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  7. #27
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Except you are conflating your terms. First you describe an agreement "between individuals" and transpose that as a right granted by "the society".
    I transposed nothing. Society is comprised of individuals, and as such anything agreed upon in a society is agreed upon between individuals.

    The agreement "between individuals" is the society--and the first part of that agreement is to endeavor to preserve each others' lives. As society is inevitable, the agreement is inevitable, and the the right to life--being the substance of that agreement--must be inalienable to the individual.
    And I disagree. Throughout history we have shown time and again exactly how the right to life is most certainly NOT inalienable. It is an agreement for mutual survival. You don't kill me, and I'll agree not to kill you. This is an agreement and by no means "inalienable". We need not make that agreement. We could continue to war with one another until one of us dies, at which point the survivor need no agreement to life whatsover. He or she has WON that 'right' and will continue on until someone more powerful denies them that right.

    Societies completely disregard others' supposed right to life constantly. Through the death penalty or just because they believe that only SOME people have said right to life. We also war with other societies, with whom we have no agreement to some inalienable 'right to life'. We kill constantly, sometimes indiscriminately, completely disregarding any inalienable 'right to life'. Why? Because we have no such agreement with those societies we war with until one society succumbs to the more powerful one and some agreement is then forged.

    Such 'rights' are not inalienable, they are earned or granted by the powerful.

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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Would you even know you had those rights if someone never told you? No. Because they don't exist.
    If these "rights" exist for the sake of being alienable by the state by some than they must also be viewed as being inalienable rights by others.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    If these "rights" exist for the sake of being alienable by the state by some than they must also be viewed as being inalienable rights by others.
    How so?
    (ten words)
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: Do Humans really have inalienable rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    How so?
    (ten words)
    Well, you are using "force" to legitimize the power to bestow or take away rights - making "force" the basis of rights. I claim that those "rights"
    are inalienable regardless of what force seeks to deprive men of them.

    Even if a man is deprived or ignorant of such rights doesn't mean that man isn't entitled to such rights.

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