View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #61
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Helping people have no meaning. Interesting.
    You didn't read or respond to the entirety of what I said.

    Christian charity depends on the -voluntary- nature of the act.

  2. #62
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I thought that Jesus was big on people doing good themselves, and not forcing others to help people.
    Jesus seems to have forgotten about how selfish people are by default.


  3. #63
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Christian charity depends on the -voluntary- nature of the act.
    Charity is charity to me.
    I suppose Christians see it differently.

    So Christianity has no obligation to help others?


  4. #64
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This is a question for Christians:

    WWJD?

    Would Jesus support a UHC plan or would he feel that healthcare should be portioned out based on an individuals ability to pay?
    First, I find this a worthless question when republicans or democrats do it.

    Second, I think Jesus would mostly be uncaring about what the government plan would be in regards to what he'd tell others to do. He'd instead focus on the indvidual, and the community, encouraging people to donate their own money to help the less fortunante. Not stating UHC is bad. Not stating UHC is good. Ignoring it, because people can make their own decisions on what they want the government doing. Giving the government money to do as they see fit and "trusting" they'll use it right is not virtuous. Giving it freely is.

    Third, I do not begin to try and explain how a man from thousands of years ago would immedietely view a modern government program. However he may view it, I'd imagine as it has no baring on divinity, faith, or spirituality that he would mostly keep the view to himself as there's nothing directly christian or anti-christian concerning UHC.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Who's talking about putting a gun to anyone's head?
    If you refuse to pay your taxes and refuse to quietly be arrested for refusing to pay your taxes how do you think they get you into jail?

    That's the whole "gun to your head" notion. People like to say giving taxes to the government and them giving it to those "who need it" is like Charity, expects it not. The thing that makes CHARITY virtuous is one CHOOSES to do it on their own. When the alternative to not doing it is being jailed and essentially ruining your life it is no longer charity, and no longer virtuous, but state sponsored coercion.

  5. #65
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Charity is charity to me.
    The conversation here is the tenet of Christian charity.
    So -your- definition of charity is irrelevant.

    So Christianity has no obligation to help others?
    Its all based on free will - you have to make the choice to help others.

  6. #66
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Jesus seems to have forgotten about how selfish people are by default.
    Or seems to realize that forcing people to do good defeats the entire purpose of altruism.

  7. #67
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Jesus seems to have forgotten about how selfish people are by default.
    Thats a silly assumption on your part, and denotes a vast lack of familiarity with the issue.

    The entrire reason Christian charity (et al) must be voluntary is PRECICELY because people are selfish.

  8. #68
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Couldn't have said it better myself Zyphlin

  9. #69
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    At the voting booth, presumeably to vote for UHC or for people that will bring UHC into being, you aren't voting for charitible giving, you're voting to force others to give.
    Christian charity cannot be forced, it must be voluntary.
    Once again, God does not compartmentalize. If you go to the voting booth, you should be practicing justice and compassion in what you vote for and who you vote to represent you, just like as a Christian you have to practice justice and compassion in every other aspect of your life. You cannot simply ignore the sick and the poor at the voting booth or at the town hall.

    Now one might believe that there is a more effective way of helping the sick than what is being proposed, and that would be a perfectly valid position to have as a Christian. Just like you cannot ignore the poor and the sick, you cannot have people that represent you ignore the poor and the sick. We don't live under a totalitarian Caesar. We ultimately all chose are laws, our government, our society.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  10. #70
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its all based on free will - you have to make the choice to help others.
    Fair enough.
    I think it is stupid personally but then in that context of 'charity'. Christians would have no obligation to support UHC.


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