View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #51
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This is a question for Christians:

    WWJD?

    Would Jesus support a UHC plan or would he feel that healthcare should be portioned out based on an individuals ability to pay?
    I thought Jesus in the Bible was big on helping others and charity?


  2. #52
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    Forced charity, by Government edict, certainly is not Christian charity. It is oppression.
    From a theological standpoint, we are not under a dictatorial Caesar. In a Republic, a government is owned by and thus is the collective arm of the people.

    This whole notion of "compartmentalized Christianity" many on the religious right promote is an absolute heresy. There are hundreds if not thousands of versus in scripture on helping the poor and the sick. Lets look at these for example:

    Deuteronomy 15:11

    "There are always going to be poor and needy people among you. So I command you: Always be generous, open purse and hands, give to your neighbors in trouble, your poor and hurting neighbors."

    Isaiah 1:17

    "Learn to do good. Work for justice. Help the down(trodden)"

    Proverbs 14:21

    "It's criminal to ignore a neighbor in need, but compassion for the poor--what a blessing!"

    Proverbs 14:31

    "You insult your Maker when you exploit the powerless; when you're kind to the poor, you honor God."


    Proverbs 21:13

    "If you stop your ears to the cries of the poor, your cries will go unheard, unanswered."

    Proverbs 31:9

    "Speak out for justice! Stand up for the poor and destitute!"

    And of course the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats:

    Matthew 25:31-46

    "31: "When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. 32: Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, 33: putting sheep to his right and goats to his left. 34: "Then the King will say to those on his right, "Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. 35: And here's why: I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me a drink, I was homeless and you gave me a room, 36: I was shivering and you gave me clothes, I was sick and you stopped to visit, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37: "Then those "sheep' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? 38 -39: And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' 40: Then the King will say, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me--you did it to me.' 41: "Then he will turn to the "goats,' the ones on his left, and say, "Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. 42: And why? Because-- I was hungry and you gave me no meal, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43: I was homeless and you gave me no bed, I was shivering and you gave me no clothes, Sick and in prison, and you never visited.' 44: "Then those "goats' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?' 45: "He will answer them, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me--you failed to do it to me.' 46: "Then those "goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the "sheep' to their eternal reward."

    Scripture does not deal with some of your actions in some circumstances. There are no such limitations on helping the poor and the sick. Just like you cannot turn your back on them in person, you cannot turn your back on them at the voting booth either.

    Now you might say that I think there is a better way we can collectively help the poor and the sick through government than the ways that are being proposed, and that's fine, but to argue that the commandments to help the poor and the sick that are found throughout scripture do not apply to you when you write your congressman or go to the voting booth is pure heresy.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #53
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Jesus also said on taxation "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and what is God's unto God." Once again, Money is not important when your soul is at stake. Someone also said that you can't take it with you.
    Jesus was telling them that matters of politics and religion shouldn't be mixed. That they could still be loyal to Rome, and God at this time

  4. #54
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I thought Jesus in the Bible was big on helping others and charity?
    Yes... but also that people do those things voluntarily.
    Else, they have no meaning.

  5. #55
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Scripture does not deal with some of your actions in some circumstances. There are no such limitations on helping the poor and the sick. Just like you cannot turn your back on them in person, you cannot turn your back on them at the voting booth either.
    At the voting booth, presumeably to vote for UHC or for people that will bring UHC into being, you aren't voting for charitible giving, you're voting to force others to give.
    Christian charity cannot be forced, it must be voluntary.

  6. #56
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes... but also that people do those things voluntarily.
    Else, they have no meaning.
    Helping people have no meaning. Interesting.

    I thought US was majority Christian? Shouldn't they be willingly jumping to help people? Y'know, follow Jesus's example.


  7. #57
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I thought Jesus in the Bible was big on helping others and charity?
    I thought that Jesus was big on people doing good themselves, and not forcing others to help people.

  8. #58
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Helping people have no meaning. Interesting.

    I thought US was majority Christian? Shouldn't they be willingly jumping to help people? Y'know, follow Jesus's example.
    If that's the case, then why do you think we need a government program to force us to "give"?

  9. #59
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    From a theological standpoint, we are not under a dictatorial Caesar. In a Republic, a government is owned by and thus is the collective arm of the people.

    This whole notion of "compartmentalized Christianity" many on the religious right promote is an absolute heresy. There are hundreds if not thousands of versus in scripture on helping the poor and the sick. Lets look at these for example:

    Deuteronomy 15:11

    "There are always going to be poor and needy people among you. So I command you: Always be generous, open purse and hands, give to your neighbors in trouble, your poor and hurting neighbors."

    Isaiah 1:17

    "Learn to do good. Work for justice. Help the down(trodden)"

    Proverbs 14:21

    "It's criminal to ignore a neighbor in need, but compassion for the poor--what a blessing!"

    Proverbs 14:31

    "You insult your Maker when you exploit the powerless; when you're kind to the poor, you honor God."


    Proverbs 21:13

    "If you stop your ears to the cries of the poor, your cries will go unheard, unanswered."

    Proverbs 31:9

    "Speak out for justice! Stand up for the poor and destitute!"

    And of course the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats:

    Matthew 25:31-46

    "31: "When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. 32: Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, 33: putting sheep to his right and goats to his left. 34: "Then the King will say to those on his right, "Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. 35: And here's why: I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me a drink, I was homeless and you gave me a room, 36: I was shivering and you gave me clothes, I was sick and you stopped to visit, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37: "Then those "sheep' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? 38 -39: And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' 40: Then the King will say, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me--you did it to me.' 41: "Then he will turn to the "goats,' the ones on his left, and say, "Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. 42: And why? Because-- I was hungry and you gave me no meal, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43: I was homeless and you gave me no bed, I was shivering and you gave me no clothes, Sick and in prison, and you never visited.' 44: "Then those "goats' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?' 45: "He will answer them, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me--you failed to do it to me.' 46: "Then those "goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the "sheep' to their eternal reward."

    Scripture does not deal with some of your actions in some circumstances. There are no such limitations on helping the poor and the sick. Just like you cannot turn your back on them in person, you cannot turn your back on them at the voting booth either.

    Now you might say that I think there is a better way we can collectively help the poor and the sick through government than the ways that are being proposed, and that's fine, but to argue that the commandments to help the poor and the sick that are found throughout scripture do not apply to you when you write your congressman or go to the voting booth is pure heresy.
    And in not ONE of these passages does he tell someone to rob Peter to pay Paul.

  10. #60
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    If that's the case, then why do you think we need a government program to force us to "give"?
    I asked a question, i do not frankly care if UHC comes to US or not.


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