View Poll Results: WWJD?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
Page 33 of 37 FirstFirst ... 233132333435 ... LastLast
Results 321 to 330 of 362

Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #321
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    We're all sinners, so its irrelevant. You asked who I was, I told you.
    Thanks for realising that.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Indeed, I will be judged. We all will. I must say Id be curious to hear his take on things.
    Well you seem to think you know his take on politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Sorry wrong, Liberals pay taxes and give to charity, are responsible and have built the country you live in, just like everyone else.
    And lets give credit where it is due. Created the mess of a welfare state we have now.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Really Blackdog, I thought you could do better than that. It didnt work one bit, up until the 20th century before which all provision was charitable, infant mortality was far higher.
    I wonder if technology had a little something to do with that hmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Without public provision of health, the US was in a far worse state. There is nowhere on earth that achieves western levels of health while not providing some form of public support.
    No one is saying no public form of help should exist. We are saying don't use Jesus as an excuse to push a political agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Charity never has and never will do the same job. You know this and so does everyone else.
    Irrelevant to the garbage the Obama health care is.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Socialism in the dark ages? What are you talking about?

    You werent even alive then, or were you?
    I have to have been alive to know the history?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    His words and deeds say different, but then we've been over this.
    He was concerned for our salvation and love for God above all else. This was his message it had nothing to do with politics and was spiritual in nature, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Please stick to the point. The personal life has always been political, any attempt to avoid this little fact is naive.
    That is your opinion and as I have stated before you seem to think everything is political.

    So no surprise here.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    It was not seen as the great evil it is today, but often as a matter of debt in society where slavery is one of the normal conditions. Moses himself wasnt against slaves. He spoke against the traders in slaves, but he wasnt being political was he?
    He was being political but that was the covenant with God's chosen people he was trying to get God's chosen out of bondage. This has literally nothing to do with this debate.

    Jesus did not speak out against allot of evil things in the Roman Empire because it would have made it political.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    How would you know?
    Because we know how most of them died?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Anyway, why go to the trouble of killing them if their actions were apolitical?
    Because they broke the law, same reason we still execute people. Has nothing to do with politics in and of itself.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-18-09 at 07:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #322
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    01-30-10 @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,618

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I understand this and agree, but Jesus is not nor will ever be about force. Jesus is about free will and love. This is the real problem with your argument.

    Taxing the people is taking money by force to pay for someone else. Forcing people to pay for charity is not charity and it never will be.
    Was Jesus against taxes? What has Jesus said about free will? In fact Jesus referred to true freedom in service to mankind.

    There is no problem with my argument.

    Indeed, taxation is not charity. This is just as well as Charity is incapable of wide scale provision, just as you wouldnt have charity for defence or justice, its no use for health either.

  3. #323
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Was Jesus against taxes? What has Jesus said about free will? In fact Jesus referred to true freedom in service to mankind.

    There is no problem with my argument.
    Yes there is.

    Service to mankind is not forced by government. Charity is not forced. Jesus did not force anyone to do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Indeed, taxation is not charity. This is just as well as Charity is incapable of wide scale provision, just as you wouldnt have charity for defence or justice, its no use for health either.
    So you admit you are trying to use Christ as a political tool? Well at least you are honest.

    Defense and justice is why we have government, not for state sanctioned theft and wealth distribution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #324
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    01-30-10 @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,618

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Thanks for realising that.
    What is the relevance?



    Well you seem to think you know his take on politics?
    Yes.


    And lets give credit where it is due. Created the mess of a welfare state we have now.
    Which has provided for millions, kept the old from suffering and death in the cold of winter and kept babies alive across the land.


    I wonder if technology had a little something to do with that hmmm?
    Indeed. Which has to be paid for and existed some time before solely charitable provision was ended. Charity just hasnt cut it.


    No one is saying no public form of help should exist. We are saying don't use Jesus as an excuse to push a political agenda.
    The question was what would Jesus do, you have your answer. Dont bother trying to tell us Jesus was uninterested in doing something about suffering if it meant government.



    Irrelevant to the garbage the Obama health care is.
    Please stick to the point.



    I have to be alvie to know the history?
    You said it looked like tryranny to the rest of us. Implying you were there.

    You obviously dont know history if you think socialism featured in the dark ages.



    He was concerned for our salvation and love for God above all else. This was his message it had nothing to do with politics and was spiritual in nature, period.
    His words and deeds say different, but then we've been over this.



    That is your opinion and as I have stated before you seem to think everything is political.

    So no surprise here.
    What isnt political?



    He was being political but that was the covenant with God's chosen people he was trying to get God's chosen out of bondage. This has literally nothing to do with this debate.

    Jesus did not speak out against allot of evil things in the Roman Empire because it would have made it political.
    Sorry let me clarify. Jesus spoke against slave traders, was that not political?



    Because we know how most of them died?
    So how do you know "It was pretty easy to find men who were not afraid of death and had faith to match"??

    Are you confident in this statement?


    Because they broke the law, same reason we still execute people. Has nothing to do with politics in and of itself.
    Eh? They broke the law and were executed but it wasnt political? What are you talking about?

  5. #325
    User JohhnyMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Last Seen
    08-21-09 @ 04:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Based on what I know of the first century church, I believe Jesus would support (for lack of a better term) a local-controlled bartering system where neighbors would help neighbors on a very local level. No lawsuits. No administrative overhead. No red tape. Christ taught us to live for others and to put ourselves least. It's tough to imagine a world if everyone lived by that mindset.
    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

  6. #326
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Sorry let me clarify. Jesus spoke against slave traders, was that not political?
    Please point to the scripture where he did this?

    Other than that question it is just the same old at this point.

    Trying to steal money be it through government or not is still stealing. Last time I looked it was a sin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #327
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by JohhnyMac View Post
    Based on what I know of the first century church, I believe Jesus would support (for lack of a better term) a local-controlled bartering system where neighbors would help neighbors on a very local level. No lawsuits. No administrative overhead. No red tape. Christ taught us to live for others and to put ourselves least. It's tough to imagine a world if everyone lived by that mindset.
    We would probably still be living like they did if everyone had that mindset.

    I can honestly say he would not have been for it. Christianity was not set down as law for government. It was meant as a moral guide to our personal lives.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-18-09 at 08:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #328
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    To expand on my disagreements with you SD, I think the line between individual actions and collective/gov't actions is indeed distinct.

    I would not support the US government in attempting to actually force Christianity on anyone, because 1- faith is a choice, without choice it is merely forced hypocrisy... 2- it is not the business of the US government to mandate anyone's religious beliefs. That is a matter for religious organizations to seek to persuade individuals to believe, not for government.

    If we allowed individuals to take vengeance for their self, after the fact, we'd run great risks of the punishments being excessive and of people being punished without reasonable proof of guilt. This has been seen during the frontier days with "vigiliance committees". With the government legal system, there is an accepted and relatively objective standard by which guilt is punished, rather than the emotionally-charged suspicions of the victim or victim's family; and a set of standard punishments, rather than the excessive punishments a grieving family might impose. I would refer to Romans 13, "The magistrate does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the revenger of evil, and the terror of the unrighteous."

    Warfare, and our conduct during war, is a slightly trickier issue. Scripturally warfare appears to be justifiable under various circumstances, and there is an acknowlegement that when the "king" calls you to go to war, you go. If the "king" is wrong to go to war, it is the king's fault, not the fault of those who obey him according to the law of the land. When the soldiers who had converted asked Jesus what they should do, whether they should continue to be soldiers or desert being implied, he told them to be content with their pay (ie no robbery, no not-paying-the-inkeeper, no extortion) and to not "terrorize the people". From this I conclude that soldiering is an honorable and moral profession, as long as soldiers conduct themselves honorably and morally.

    As citizens of a democratic Republic, we loan a measure of our sovereignty to our representatives though elections. I agree with you wholeheartedly that we should exercise care to vote wisely and justly... as hard as that is sometimes given the choices we're stuck with.

    Jesus surely did not support the pagan and frequently-harsh or oppressive Roman government, yet he said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's due" when asked about taxes.

    Caesar's word was the law of the land, at times the highest law from which there was no appeal. The equivalent in the USA is the Constitution. "I cannot lay my finger on that article of the Constitution that allows the legislature to use the public treasury for charity."
    I think too many people try to turn Jesus into some 60's era peace loving hippie. Jesus had a role to play in God's plan and he knew it, just as he knew others did as well. The crippled and sick were there to demonstrate the power of God, the Pharisees to demonstrate the fallacy of the levitical law to overcome sin, shed light on political corruption and arrogance of false wisdom. Jesus did not bring peace, but the truth which set the corrupt against innocent.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #329
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    01-30-10 @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,618

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Please point to the scripture where he did this?

    Other than that question it is just the same old at this point.

    Trying to steal money be it through government or not is still stealing. Last time I looked it was a sin.
    Timothy 1:10

    Government taxation is not stealing. Probably why its not mentioned in any part of the Torah or Bible as such.

  10. #330
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:14 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,548

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Timothy 1:10
    You note that it was about GOD's law, and not man's right?


    Government taxation is not stealing. Probably why its not mentioned in any part of the Torah or Bible as such.
    Taxation is irrelevant to your obligation to God.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

Page 33 of 37 FirstFirst ... 233132333435 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •