View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
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    12 25.00%
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    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #311
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    I am your fellow human, giving my interpretation of Christ, that's who.
    No. You are a sinner trying to say your way is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    You should have mentioned the next line too, "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"

    I have little difficulty being judged on this matter, as I by supporting both charity and public support and ensuring I'm doing the best I can for fellow man.
    Then you will be judged for trying to use Jesus to push a political agenda that Biblically he does not stand for.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    They are responsible personally for giving of charity and the contribution to public support, there is no getting out.
    They are responsible for the welfare mentality and not much else.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Indeed you do give to charity, as do I. Charitable support is a poor method for providing support for an entire population. Thats why its immoral to demand that one's society relies on this method.
    Hmmm.. seemed top work back in the time of Jesus. Seemed to work before the welfare state.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Majority rule certainly, but I was referring to the christian socialist tradition.
    Oh I see Christian socialism is it. You mean the same socialism that cased the Dark Ages and the Crusades? Looked like tyranny to the rest of us.

    Please. Jesus was not a socialist, he was a spiritualist.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    The political nature of personal life refers directly to the nitty gritty of real life.
    It refers to your trying to use political hackery to pervert the teachings of Christ. Fortunately we know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    It was legal everywhere, and was normal practice among the tribes.
    And this somehow makes it right? I guess he did not want to make a political issue of it huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Yet again and again the powers that be took the trouble to find them and kill them.
    It was pretty easy to find men who were not afraid of death and had faith to match.

    Makes them no less a-political.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-17-09 at 09:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #312
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. You are a sinner trying to say your way is better.
    Pot meet kettle.

  3. #313
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Pot meet kettle.
    Did you actually read what was posted or are you just trolling?

    I am saying Jesus would not have said anything either way because he was not a political figure.

    I am also not telling people they will run afoul of Jesus if they don't agree with the Obama health care bill.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-18-09 at 01:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #314
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    In your argument "funded by tax payers" = Socialism.


    You also forgot controlled by the government and private entity/industry. So your eit is funded by tax payers+ controlled by the government+



    This would include education and public works. If you disagree, how do you differentiate between "Publicly funded healthcare" and services "usually funded by tax payers"?
    Things like roads,bridges,highways,firefighters and police are not privately owned entities, hospitals are privately owned entities.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #315
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    In your argument "funded by tax payers" = Socialism.


    You also forgot controlled by the government and private entity/industry. So your equation should be funded by tax payers + private entity now controlled by the government = socialism.


    This would include education and public works. If you disagree, how do you differentiate between "Publicly funded healthcare" and services "usually funded by tax payers"?
    Things like roads,bridges,highways,firefighters and police are not privately owned entities, hospitals are privately owned entities. Things like roads,highways and bridges have for centuries been the responsibility of the government to provide. Things like police and fire fighters are usally the general responsibility of the government to protect their citizens and ensure their citizens obey the law.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #316
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    I think that Jesus would want things done independently of the government. He probably would want us to make sure that everyone gets health care by giving to charities ourselves.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #317
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Wanted to take a second and point something out here. This is not an attack, just an observation on this thread and others like it.

    BLZebub - Not Chrsitian
    Devil505 - Not Christian
    Disnydude - Christian
    Gwendoline - Unknown
    Joe1991 - Not Christian
    Laila - Sunni Muslim
    Layla Z - Unknown
    NDN Dancer - Not Christian
    SouthernDemocrat - Jeffersonian Christian (I know exactly what that is as I am similar)

    Out of the 9 Members who voted yes to the question only 2 or 3 are actual Christians. 4 are confirmed non-believers/different religion. I would say the 2 unknown are likely Christians of some sort but you never know.

    Interesting. This deserves another thread all to itself.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-18-09 at 03:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #318
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. You are a sinner trying to say your way is better.
    We're all sinners, so its irrelevant. You asked who I was, I told you.



    Then you will be judged for trying to use Jesus to push a political agenda that Biblically he does not stand for.
    Indeed, I will be judged. We all will. I must say Id be curious to hear his take on things.


    They are responsible for the welfare mentality and not much else.
    Sorry wrong, Liberals pay taxes and give to charity, are responsible and have built the country you live in, just like everyone else.


    Hmmm.. seemed top work back in the time of Jesus. Seemed to work before the welfare state.
    Really Blackdog, I thought you could do better than that. It didnt work one bit, up until the 20th century before which all provision was charitable, infant mortality was far higher.
    Without public provision of health, the US was in a far worse state. There is nowhere on earth that achieves western levels of health while not providing some form of public support.
    Charity never has and never will do the same job. You know this and so does everyone else.

    Oh I see Christian socialism is it. You mean the same socialism that cased the Dark Ages and the Crusades? Looked like tyranny to the rest of us.
    Socialism in the dark ages? What are you talking about?

    You werent even alive then, or were you?



    Please. Jesus was not a socialist, he was a spiritualist.
    His words and deeds say different, but then we've been over this.



    It refers to your trying to use political hackery to pervert the teachings of Christ. Fortunately we know better.
    Please stick to the point. The personal life has always been political, any attempt to avoid this little fact is naive.




    And this somehow makes it right? I guess he did not want to make a political issue of it huh?
    It was not seen as the great evil it is today, but often as a matter of debt in society where slavery is one of the normal conditions. Moses himself wasnt against slaves. He spoke against the traders in slaves, but he wasnt being political was he?


    It was pretty easy to find men who were not afraid of death and had faith to match.
    Makes them no less a-political.
    How would you know?

    Anyway, why go to the trouble of killing them if their actions were apolitical?

  9. #319
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I think that Jesus would want things done independently of the government. He probably would want us to make sure that everyone gets health care by giving to charities ourselves.
    As do I and every liberal in the land, however it aint gonna happen. Never has and never will, thats why taxation is the only way and everyone sharing the burden is the only way.

  10. #320
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    As do I and every liberal in the land, however it aint gonna happen. Never has and never will, thats why taxation is the only way and everyone sharing the burden is the only way.
    I understand this and agree, but Jesus is not nor will ever be about force. Jesus is about free will and love. This is the real problem with your argument.

    Taxing the people is taking money by force to pay for someone else. Forcing people to pay for charity is not charity and it never will be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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