View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #241
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes.
    And if Congress enacts laws with the tenets of Christianity as their basis...
    I just answered this, which tells me you're not paying attention.

    Congress can do no such thing.

    However, as long as the reasoning for the purely christian law is not in the text, it's all good.

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Indeed the rituals and organisation are secondary, the morality is not. Moreover it is the foundation of all western morality, at least in writing. The ritual and organisation contributes little to western thinking. As such it remains ok for liberals to base their morals on their background of Christianity while still holding that church and state be separate.

    The separation of organisation and morals is clear, useful and applicable.
    Apparently only when referring to what liberalism wants to impose.

    If you made this argument for any conservative attempt to do exactly the same, yes, there would be, and always is, a great hissy fit.




    Thats your fundamental failing here, its not irrelevant. They are one and the same, jesus may have said render unto God, what is Gods etc etc, but that didnt mean he was letting Ceasar off the hook, or Pontius Pilot. This is more relevant now in a representative democracy where our vote contributes to decisions made.
    As Southern Democrat has pointed out to quote him;
    Yes, they would be on the hook as individuals.

    Recall (if indeed you've had instruction in this) that Jesus taught that we should give up our Earthly trappings -- money, power, etc. -- "take up the cross," and go out and personally help people.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #243
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I just answered this, which tells me you're not paying attention.
    I was paying attention. You werent being clear.

  4. #244
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Some excellent comments so far.

    re this nonsense of the establishment clause it is the morality of christianity that liberals seek to introduce to American society, not its customs and practices.
    I thought liberals were against the imposition of Christian morality upon society?

    Someone, I think Goobieman, said that Jesus does not want charity to be forced. That is true. Jesus would not want to force charity. However, neither does he want suffering to continue. Nor does he approve of anyone standing by and watching it. Jesus was after all a champion of the excluded and the under-represented and the sick.

    Thus Jesus would require that you vote for your own taxation for the purposes of helping your fellow man.
    No... Jesus would ask that you choose, for yourself, to provide charity to others. He would not ask that you force others to do so, as you already agreed.

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    So why would he want that when he could instead want you to vote for a system that automatically covers everyone?
    Because, as has been noted, this is not charity borne of free will.

  6. #246
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    To the original WWJD question, as God in the flesh Jesus was also a carpenter by trade. At no point was he a political activist leading a political movement such as is being discussed here, and to assume that there were not political topics of the same magnitude at the time of his earthly ministry would be naive. They existed, and he ignored them, because he is concerned with the "Hearts of men" and his kingdom is "Not of this world." His heart was "Set on things eternal." He and he alone is worthy and capable of judging men.

    If he were here today, given what we know, he might be traveling to speak to those who are hungry and thirsty for the truth. He might be admonishing and correcting those who are practicing error, and teaching us to focus on things of ETERNAL significance, rather than temporal, because soon it will pass away. He might very well heal some people as he traveled, but we should remember that he had the ability to simply speak and heal all people, he didn't. He healed those who came to him by faith, or in the case of the centurion were represented by great faith. He might speak to us as the petty, spoiled, self serving, petulant, demanding society we have become and pronounce judgment on us.

    One thing we can be certain of is that whatever Jesus would do if he were here today in the flesh would glorify his Father, not the government.
    In politics the middle way is none at all.
    John Adams

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Tagged N. View Post
    One thing we can be certain of is that whatever Jesus would do if he were here today in the flesh would glorify his Father, not the government.
    I don't think that can be argued against.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #248
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Can't believe all of you took the bait trying to measure moral behavior against socialist oppressive government. If I'm not mistaken all of the purely socialist regimes have ended up atheistic and at the extremes of oppression. For instance the National Socialist Party of Germany had universal health care but was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people. Soviets purges, Fidel and Che purges etc., etc.. Does having universal health care mean you will become despotic? Maybe not (Britain), but it's sure a step in that direction. And Britain is now trying to dismantle following the example of the now freed communist (socialist) block countries like Poland and Hungary.

    Jesus lived in a largely communal environment. It was when burgeoning, centralized, inefficient, wasteful and powerful governments intruded that everything fell apart.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

  9. #249
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, Jesus was not a socialist, in any sense of the word. I mean, unless you can show me where he advocated collective ownership of the means of production?
    He gave 5,000 people free food. He didn't sell it to them. Obviously not a capitalist. Or at least not a very good one.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #250
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Actually we did have a war that involved taxes. In fact initially taxes were not levied against the people, but companies doing buisness.

    Yes I do, and I am not being represented as are allot of people.

    For the second time the problem was taxation without representation. At least present it in it's full context. Our side felt it was not represented in the British Parliament regardless of the fact that they had to pay the same taxes as Englishmen living in England. That is not the same as saying that we had a war over taxes. The grievance wasn't over the taxes. But over the lack of rights, benefits etc they felt was in some way guaranteed to them by paying taxes.

    As far as you feeling like you are not being represented, I believe you should take it up with your congressman. I feel just fine with mine.

    Hyperbole indeed.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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