View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #231
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Let's say the state you live in puts on the ballot the an initiative for a 1/8 cent sales tax that will go towards expanding the state park system, leasing more land for hunters in the fall, expanding the state's trail system, purchasing more state conservation lands, and improving the states fish stocking program for lakes and streams.

    The citizens of the state then go to the polls and vote the initiative in.

    Does that 1/8 cent sales tax for state conservation programs constitute theft or forced confiscation?
    Fallacy argument but no. Although it could be seen as such by some.

    Income tax was never voted on by the people.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-15-09 at 12:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #232
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Income tax was never voted on by the people.
    I've always wondered about this kind of reasoning.

    As America is a Constitutional Republic, it serves as a representative democracy. Rather than people voting directly on issues themselves, they elect representatives to do so for them. So in respect, would not representatives voting on an issue be the equivalent of people voting on the issue? This whole, "will of the people" argument seems awfully fishy since the United States of America is not a democracy and the founding fathers of the country foresaw the danger in allowing the majority to rule over the rights of the various minorities. So why do people insist that things like income tax were not voted on "by the people" when they were voted on by the people who were elected by the people?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-15-09 at 12:11 AM.

  3. #233
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Based on my understanding of the bible, the Jesus character would not support 'charity' forced at gunpoint.

  4. #234
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I've always wondered about this kind of reasoning.

    As America is a Constitutional Republic, it serves as a representative democracy. Rather than people voting directly on issues themselves, they elect representatives to do so for them. So in respect, would not representatives voting on an issue be the equivalent of people voting on the issue? This whole, "will of the people" argument seems awfully fishy since the United States of America is not a democracy and the founding fathers of the country foresaw the danger in allowing the majority to rule over the rights of the various minorities. So why do people insist that things like income tax were not voted on "by the people" when they were voted on by the people who were elected by the people?
    Unfortunately our representatives are more concerned with representing themselves rather than us the people. This is the problem.

    So if our Representatives no longer represent us, what are we to do?

    It's like the bail outs. The majority did not support the bailouts yet most in congress voted for them. Then they said they know what we need. Are we being represented here or bull ****ted? I think it is the later.

    Comes a time when the people need to rise up and remind those in power who they serve.

    PS: The people do vote directly on issues at a state and local level.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-15-09 at 01:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #235
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    PS: The people do vote directly on issues at a state and local level.
    Monorail for Springfield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

  6. #236
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
    Monorail for Springfield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
    I live in Florida, so why would I care about a Monorail for Springfield?

    Unless you are talking about the Simpsons????
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-15-09 at 01:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #237
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So if our Representatives no longer represent us, what are we to do?
    Elect representatives who will?

    Comes a time when the people need to rise up and remind those in power who they serve.
    By electing them out of office!

    PS: The people do vote directly on issues at a state and local level.
    Which is how the Constitution laid it out. Each state gets to decide how to run its own affairs.

    However, that doesn't address my original question. Would not representatives voting on an issue be the equivalent of people voting on the issue? Even if they don't represent your particular view, they do represent the view of those who got them elected.

  8. #238
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You miss the point. It's not about liberal cherrypicking of which tenets they want to implement. It's about your distinction between implementing the "morality" and implementing (apparently) the forms and rituals. Christianity is about that morality, and the rituals are secondary.
    Indeed the rituals and organisation are secondary, the morality is not. Moreover it is the foundation of all western morality, at least in writing. The ritual and organisation contributes little to western thinking. As such it remains ok for liberals to base their morals on their background of Christianity while still holding that church and state be separate.

    The separation of organisation and morals is clear, useful and applicable.





    Several of us already said why. Go back and read.

    There's a distinction between the heavenly, which is eternal, and the earthly, which is minuscule. Earthly governments are just that -- minuscule and meaningless. Completely irrelevant to your individual standing with God. Jesus spoke from God's point of view, not man's.
    Thats your fundamental failing here, its not irrelevant. They are one and the same, jesus may have said render unto God, what is Gods etc etc, but that didnt mean he was letting Ceasar off the hook, or Pontius Pilot. This is more relevant now in a representative democracy where our vote contributes to decisions made.
    As Southern Democrat has pointed out to quote him;
    You see in scripture kings are told to be righteous and just as well

  9. #239
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Yes it is forced. If it wasn't, then would be no need to have a tax man take it from you or vote on it, as people would do it themselves. The moving ption isn't viable for most people, and there's taxes everywhere anyway.


    Its no more forced than any other contract that one enters into. In the case of the state, you are immediately protected and contracts you enter are held binding, that protects you and others, from birth.

    If you dont want to live in a place where majority counts, and are contracts held binding there is always somalia. Bring your guns.

    If you don't like that you can argue for only paying for the things you agree with.

    And I never said that people shouldn't pay taxes
    This highlights the immaturity of the right, they feel resentful over things such as taxes for road building because they dont want to accept the will of the majority, yet theyd happily expect others to accept that will of something they did agree with. Whatsmore they have no solution for making roads only used by those who wish to pay for them. Or defence, justice or anything else.
    Last edited by creation; 08-15-09 at 05:46 AM.

  10. #240
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Elect representatives who will?
    You act like the American voter is not apathetic and up to the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    By electing them out of office!
    Easier said than done.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Which is how the Constitution laid it out. Each state gets to decide how to run its own affairs.
    Like that has been true since the civil war.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    However, that doesn't address my original question. Would not representatives voting on an issue be the equivalent of people voting on the issue?
    Back in the 1700's probably, but not now.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Even if they don't represent your particular view, they do represent the view of those who got them elected.
    Not really. Look at GW Bush and tell me he represented those who put him in office.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-15-09 at 06:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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