View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
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    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #191
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    One must then ask how that gets past the Establishment clause.
    The Establishment clause only applies to Congress.

    It does not apply to the People.

  2. #192
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The Establishment clause only applies to Congress.
    It does not apply to the People.
    Yes.
    And if Congress enacts laws with the tenets of Christianity as their basis...

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I give you credit for being one of the few who will admit that modern liberalism stems from seeking to implement Christian tenets into law.
    No. Christian tenets say nothing about stealing from the rich to give power to the self-proclaimed elites....oh, wait, that's what liberalism aka socialism really is....liberalism is all about stealing to buy votes....damn, that's still just a description of the reality of liberalism and socialism...liberalism is the art of stealing to make one's feelings of guilt go away.

    Jesus never really pushed that too much.

    He was kinda against stealing and most sorts of dishonesty, actually.

    Now, liberalism promotes it's agenda as a quasi-christian kind of thing, full of nice words about "charity" and "civic duty" and it redefines "sin" and "evil" (evil is the opposition to liberalism), but that's only the facade to please the stupid people. Underneath, it's got nothing to do with real charity, real forgiveness (the most vindictive people are the flaming libtards), and real honesty.

    Just look at the lies they're using to push this healthcare scam of their Messiah if you want an example. Look at the way they're treating the citizens opposed to their "benevolent" agenda.

  4. #194
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Some excellent comments so far.

    re this nonsense of the establishment clause it is the morality of christianity that liberals seek to introduce to American society, not its customs and practices.

    This tactic of trying to flip liberals opposition to church and state by using the example of liberals moral foundations is noted and easily dealt with. However congratulations on the attempt.

    Someone, I think Goobieman, said that Jesus does not want charity to be forced. That is true. Jesus would not want to force charity. However, neither does he want suffering to continue. Nor does he approve of anyone standing by and watching it. Jesus was after all a champion of the excluded and the under-represented and the sick.

    Thus Jesus would require that you vote for your own taxation for the purposes of helping your fellow man.
    Last edited by creation; 08-14-09 at 05:48 PM.

  5. #195
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No. Christian tenets say nothing about stealing from the rich to give power to the self-proclaimed elites....oh, wait, that's what liberalism aka socialism really is....liberalism is all about stealing to buy votes....damn, that's still just a description of the reality of liberalism and socialism...liberalism is the art of stealing to make one's feelings of guilt go away.

    Jesus never really pushed that too much.

    He was kinda against stealing and most sorts of dishonesty, actually.

    Now, liberalism promotes it's agenda as a quasi-christian kind of thing, full of nice words about "charity" and "civic duty" and it redefines "sin" and "evil" (evil is the opposition to liberalism), but that's only the facade to please the stupid people. Underneath, it's got nothing to do with real charity, real forgiveness (the most vindictive people are the flaming libtards), and real honesty.

    Just look at the lies they're using to push this healthcare scam of their Messiah if you want an example. Look at the way they're treating the citizens opposed to their "benevolent" agenda.
    Liberalism is stealing? How does one steal from oneself?

  6. #196
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    This tactic of trying to flip liberals opposition to church and state by using the example of liberals moral foundations is noted and easily dealt with.
    It's possible that it could be. It's possible that there's an easy refutation of it.

    However, this:

    it is the morality of christianity that liberals seek to introduce to American society, not its customs and practices.
    Is not it. Ask any pro-abortion supporter carrying a sign which says "Keep your Bible out of my womb."





    Thus Jesus would require that you vote for your own taxation for the purposes of helping your fellow man.
    No, he would expect you to take that money you'd pay in tax and put voluntarily toward the cause (and others). Have you not been reading?
    Last edited by Harshaw; 08-14-09 at 05:58 PM.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #197
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    To frame the question more accurately: which system, that is one that is privatized and largely market-based, versus a government-run system, is going to give the most benefit to the greatest number of people?

    IMO private for-profit healthcare gives more benefit to more people, a higher standard of prompt care, therefore I would think private healthcare is the better choice from the standpoint of Christian compassion.

    Anyway, the whole WWJD thing has been taken to ludicrous lengths in blatant attempts to shame Christians into doing what certain political intrests want them to do: what would Jesus drive, what would Jesus say about gun control, etc. It's a crock. Jesus said "My Kingdom is not of this world..." and largely resisted attempts by both followers and opponents to politicize his message. His message was the message of salvation, that the promised Messiah was at hand and the Kingdom of Heaven was come to the hearts of all who would believe.

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Liberalism is stealing? How does one steal from oneself?
    Don't be disingenuous. One aspect of Liberalism is taking from Group A and giving to Group B, also called wealth redistribution: a feature of "liberalism" (really, it is socialism, might as well call it the right name) for a couple of generations now.

    If anyone but the government does that, it is called theft. See Robin Hood.



    G.

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Anyway, the whole WWJD thing has been taken to ludicrous lengths in blatant attempts to shame Christians into doing what certain political intrests want them to do: what would Jesus drive, what would Jesus say about gun control, etc. It's a crock. Jesus said "My Kingdom is not of this world..." and largely resisted attempts by both followers and opponents to politicize his message. His message was the message of salvation, that the promised Messiah was at hand and the Kingdom of Heaven was come to the hearts of all who would believe.
    Abortion is murder.

    Liberals are satanists.

    Taxation is stealing.

    Obama's healthcare plane is 'evil'.

    Christians Evangelicals, one of the largest clearly right wing groups in this country, and many other Christian groups use their beliefs and religiously charged rhetoric on a constant basis to make everybody else see their points but you point out that Jesus might have been a socialist in the general sense of the word and all the sudden it's not cool. I mean from what I've read he was feeding poor people, helping sick people walk again, curing blind kids. All for nothing. You'd think the same people who constantly parade him around like the world's only bastion of goodness would be the first in line to be socialists instead of complaining about not being able to afford an extra hamburger a day.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Abortion is murder.

    Liberals are satanists.

    Taxation is stealing.

    Obama's healthcare plane is 'evil'.

    Christians Evangelicals, one of the largest clearly right wing groups in this country, and many other Christian groups use their beliefs and religiously charged rhetoric on a constant basis to make everybody else see their points but you point out that Jesus might have been a socialist in the general sense of the word and all the sudden it's not cool. I mean from what I've read he was feeding poor people, helping sick people walk again, curing blind kids. All for nothing. You'd think the same people who constantly parade him around like the world's only bastion of goodness would be the first in line to be socialists instead of complaining about not being able to afford an extra hamburger a day.
    No, Jesus was not a socialist, in any sense of the word. I mean, unless you can show me where he advocated collective ownership of the means of production?

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