View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #141
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    How many times does it have to be explained that if you live in the United States, you don't live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Your government, whether its the local, state, or federal government is simply an institution created by the people that ultimately acts on behalf of the wishes of the people. You have a voice at the voting booth and when you petition your government. That voice has to ultimately reflect your values just like every other action in your life ultimately reflects your values.
    Yes, and just because the majority wants something, that doesn't make it moral.Just because the majority thinks that giving is good, doesn't give them right to take from those who would rather keep what they have in the name of charity.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Ultimately are laws are not edicts handed down from a dictator. They are the collective products of each and everyone of us. Now I am not arguing for or against a government provided Universal Health care System. I am merely pointing out that as a Christian you cannot just say that the government that I elect and that represents me does not have to pursue justice and compassion because that government ultimately is a reflection of all of us.

    So you might say, hey, everyone should have health care if they need it, I just don't believe its something that the federal government can accomplish the way they are trying to accomplish it. Otherwise, I don't think that 300 million of us can collectively accomplish this goal through that institution. That is a perfectly valid position to hold as a Christian. However, you cannot say, my Christian values only narrowly apply to the actions that I personally deem as my individual actions, and not my actions as it relates to the government institutions I ultimately choose to represent me and act on my behalf.
    If you want universal health care, fine. But you shouldn't bring God into the situation. Jesus said nothing about forced "charity."

  2. #142
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No, I am not saying that you should vote to compel adherence to your moral beliefs. For example, you can't force someone not to lie or not to sleep around on their spouse. Those are choices that they have to make.
    The point you continue to miss is that, under the teachings of Christianity, there is no moral good in forcing someone to do good, either in the act of forcing the person, or in the act that was forced.

  3. #143
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Okay, I changed my mind.

    He'd be for UHC...

    ...carpenters get ****ty benefits

    (J/K)

  4. #144
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To spread His word.
    Among other things, to teach that people should, of their own free will, give to the sick and the poor.

    I'm not at all sure why you havn't gotten this by now.


    There you go. Case closed.
    Case reopened. Free will is exactly what is going on here. By their own free will millions have decided that the current situation is unsustainable and voted in a group of representatives that may for once listen. Just because you are on the other side of this debate does not mean this is some kind of dictatorship it simply means you may get outvoted. If you think this kind of democracy sucks maybe you think that a monarchy would be better?

  5. #145
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The point you continue to miss is that, under the teachings of Christianity, there is no moral good in forcing someone to do good, either in the act of forcing the person, or in the act that was forced.
    We are at an impasse. You are arguing that if you do something good through government that others are being forced to do it, thus there is no good in it.

    I am arguing that in a representative democracy, we do with the institutions of government what we wish to do with them, thus the actions of government are ultimately our choice and the product of our actions.

    Those are irreconcilable positions obviously, so we wont get anywhere arguing it further.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  6. #146
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Case reopened. Free will is exactly what is going on here.
    How can you say that?
    UHC removes the free will in that it forces people to provide for the sick and the poort. In that, it is NOT charity under Christain teachings.

  7. #147
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    We are at an impasse. You are arguing that if you do something good through government that others are being forced to do it, thus there is no good in it.
    In terms of Christian teachings, that is excatly correct, and is exacly why your position that Christian teachings support UHC is wrong.

    Unless you can describe the error in my position, you will contine to be wrong.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 08-14-09 at 01:53 PM.

  8. #148
    Student angrycarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How can you say that?
    UHC removes the free will in that it forces people to provide for the sick and the poort. In that, it is NOT charity under Christain teachings.
    Read the comment directly above yours he said it better than I ever could.

  9. #149
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Read the comment directly above yours he said it better than I ever could.
    Well then, you shall receive the same response:

    Unless you can describe the error in my position, you will contine to be wrong.

  10. #150
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How can you say that?
    UHC removes the free will in that it forces people to provide for the sick and the poort. In that, it is NOT charity under Christain teachings.
    So should we eliminate the fire department and ambulance that tax dollars pay for and aid the sick and poor?

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