View Poll Results: WWJD?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
Page 14 of 37 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 362

Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #131
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,545

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Jesus would of course be supportive of health care for everyone.
    Please point out the scriptures that point to his supporting of universal health care?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You can't read the gospels and not come to that conclusion.
    Yes you can, and most learned biblical scholars will tell you the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Whether this was accomplished through charitable institutions or government institutions would be irrelevant, but Christian individuals through their actions regardless of whether its in their homes, individual communities, state, or nation are commanded to pursue justice and compassion and that includes your actions in the voting booth and town hall.
    Not really. We are to act according to and abide by the laws of our state etc. The teachings of Jesus was for our own personal moral compass, not one to run a government on.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You cant say that the government that you elect and that represents you and your values should be held to a different standard than you are. That's not how it works, there is no such compartmentalization in terms of the fruits of mans actions and efforts in Christianity.
    Bunk. I did not vote for the people in power. So I guess this means I can just ignore your flawed logic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Unless you live in a totalitarian dictatorship as was the case under Cesar, Christians have to pursue the same values in the voting booth that they do in every other aspect of their lives.
    Yes they do but that has little to do with UHC. In fact it has nothing to do with it as I have shown.

    It is funny and Goshin has already mentioned it. If Christians were rallying around no same sex marriage you probably would be saying the exact opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #132
    Student angrycarpenter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Alabama, USA
    Last Seen
    11-06-09 @ 03:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    234

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Here is your problem...

    Jesus never got involved in Roman politics, ever. He would not be for or against. He would tell you to worry about your soul and leave it at that.
    Why did Jesus send his apostles out into the world? Did he tell them to not worry about others, just take care of yourself? No he sent them out to spread a message of love for your fellow man and to heal the sick in his name. Was the purpose of this evangelism simply to spread a religion? No it was an attempt to make the world a better place through brotherhood and selfless acts. He also told them that if a town just didn't want to hear it, if they were so devoted to their worldly goods that the message fell on deaf ears to leave and beat the dust of that place off of their shoes at the edge of town. That is what I am about to do to this thread. I am the only one here that has opened my bible and pointed to the answer and no one wants to hear it so I leave this thread to the ones who love their stuff far more than they love their brothers and sisters.

  3. #133
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,545

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Jesus didn't even come close to saying anything about same-sex marriage. In fact, most of his teachings could easily be interpreted to show that he would have supported it.
    But Paul did and was very clear.

    Nice missing the entire point and trying to derail the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #134
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:27 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,605

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    Okay, I'm starting to understand how a lot of you don't like the concept of being forced.

    But you have to appreciate and understand that others don't see it that way... and that others are prepared to go into it "willingly".

    I would be one of the willing. I wouldn't feel "forced" in any way, because I believe in UHC and would like to see / to know that less people in the world are needlessly suffering...
    So, all you willing folks should find each other and go to town. I'll even help, and in fact, I do.

    But if you're forcing others to participate who are unwilling, you're just imposing your own will on them.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #135
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,419

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    How many times does this have to be explained? There is a differance between forcing someone else to help others and helping others yourself. Christian virtue is about people doing good at their own free will, not being coerced.
    How many times does it have to be explained that if you live in the United States, you don't live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Your government, whether its the local, state, or federal government is simply an institution created by the people that ultimately acts on behalf of the wishes of the people. You have a voice at the voting booth and when you petition your government. That voice has to ultimately reflect your values just like every other action in your life ultimately reflects your values.

    Ultimately are laws are not edicts handed down from a dictator. They are the collective products of each and everyone of us. Now I am not arguing for or against a government provided Universal Health care System. I am merely pointing out that as a Christian you cannot just say that the government that I elect and that represents me does not have to pursue justice and compassion because that government ultimately is a reflection of all of us.

    So you might say, hey, everyone should have health care if they need it, I just don't believe its something that the federal government can accomplish the way they are trying to accomplish it. Otherwise, I don't think that 300 million of us can collectively accomplish this goal through that institution. That is a perfectly valid position to hold as a Christian. However, you cannot say, my Christian values only narrowly apply to the actions that I personally deem as my individual actions, and not my actions as it relates to the government institutions I ultimately choose to represent me and act on my behalf.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-14-09 at 01:26 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  6. #136
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:27 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,605

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Why did Jesus send his apostles out into the world? Did he tell them to not worry about others, just take care of yourself? No he sent them out to spread a message of love for your fellow man and to heal the sick in his name. Was the purpose of this evangelism simply to spread a religion? No it was an attempt to make the world a better place through brotherhood and selfless acts. He also told them that if a town just didn't want to hear it, if they were so devoted to their worldly goods that the message fell on deaf ears to leave and beat the dust of that place off of their shoes at the edge of town. That is what I am about to do to this thread. I am the only one here that has opened my bible and pointed to the answer and no one wants to hear it so I leave this thread to the ones who love their stuff far more than they love their brothers and sisters.
    And what part of that supports the idea of forcing everyone to do what Jesus taught?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #137
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Why did Jesus send his apostles out into the world?
    To spread His word.
    Among other things, to teach that people should, of their own free will, give to the sick and the poor.

    I'm not at all sure why you havn't gotten this by now.

    No it was an attempt to make the world a better place through brotherhood and selfless acts
    There you go. Case closed.

  8. #138
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:27 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,605

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    How many times does it have to be explained that if you live in the United States, you don't live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Your government, whether its the local, state, or federal government is simply an institution created by the people that ultimately acts on behalf of the wishes of the people. You have a voice at the voting booth and when you petition your government. That voice has to ultimately reflect your values just like every other action in your life ultimately reflects your values.
    A free society is about choosing your own path, free of being coerced by others to follow THEIR path.

    You're saying that Christians should vote to force others to follow the Christian path.

    That's anti-freedom, and it's bad theology to boot. Christianity is not about force.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #139
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,545

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Why did Jesus send his apostles out into the world? Did he tell them to not worry about others, just take care of yourself? No he sent them out to spread a message of love for your fellow man and to heal the sick in his name.
    Exactly. To go out and teach love and heal the sick in HIS name, not Obama's name or anyone else.

    As soon as I see President Obama out there laying hands and healing people I will change my tune.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Was the purpose of this evangelism simply to spread a religion? No it was an attempt to make the world a better place through brotherhood and selfless acts.
    Personal selfless acts. Not redistributed wealth or forced by the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    He also told them that if a town just didn't want to hear it, if they were so devoted to their worldly goods that the message fell on deaf ears to leave and beat the dust of that place off of their shoes at the edge of town. That is what I am about to do to this thread. I am the only one here that has opened my bible and pointed to the answer and no one wants to hear it so I leave this thread to the ones who love their stuff far more than they love their brothers and sisters.
    Luke 18:9"And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others"

    Sounds like you mite want to crack your Bible a little more.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-14-09 at 01:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #140
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,419

    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    A free society is about choosing your own path, free of being coerced by others to follow THEIR path.

    You're saying that Christians should vote to force others to follow the Christian path.

    That's anti-freedom, and it's bad theology to boot. Christianity is not about force.
    No, I am not saying that you should vote to compel adherence to your moral beliefs. For example, you can't force someone not to lie or not to sleep around on their spouse. Those are choices that they have to make.

    However, at the same time you are also to pursue compassion and justice in your actions. You do this in your individual actions, in your communities, and in the voting booth. As I stated earlier, you cannot use the government to endorse, promote, or compel adherence to your specific religious beliefs. However, your actions in the voting booth and at the town hall can and should be reflective of your beliefs and conscience.

    For example, in a representative democracy, if your government that represents and and that you elect was engaging in genocide, you could not say that well the bible only talks about what I do individually and my voting and my petitioning of my government is excluded from that. That is just not how it works. We are all to pursue justice and compassion in all of our actions.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

Page 14 of 37 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •