View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #121
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    I am going to take another tack. The question was what WWJD not how should current dogma be applied to this situation.
    Interesting how you try to marginalize the necessity of acting under your own free will as "current dogma" that's been "twisted to support practically any [policy]", while at the same time tring to twist the basic tenets of Christianty to support -your- political and ideiological policies...

    but the question was What would Jesus do?
    Yes. This has been asnwered.

    Forcing people to conform to the teents of Christianity is not a tenet of Christianity. As such, He would argue that you should freely give to the sick and the poor, but you should not force or try to force others to do so.

    Not sure how that can be more plain.

  2. #122
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Interesting how you try to marginalize the necessity of acting under your own free will as "current dogma" that's been "twisted to support practically any [policy]", while at the same time tring to twist the basic tenets of Christianty to support -your- political and ideiological policies...


    Yes. This has been asnwered.

    Forcing people to conform to the teents of Christianity is not a tenet of Christianity. As such, He would argue that you should freely give to the sick and the poor, but you should not force or try to force others to do so.

    Not sure how that can be more plain.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    See my post above.

    He wouldn't have opposed it, but he wouldn't have advocated it, either. He would have found it morally irrelevant. It entirely about what you do as an individual, not as a group. And I would think, given my understanding of Jesus's teachings, that if you advocate for something like UHC but never do anything individually to help people, you've done little of moral value.
    Jesus would of course be supportive of health care for everyone. You can't read the gospels and not come to that conclusion. Whether this was accomplished through charitable institutions or government institutions would be irrelevant, but Christian individuals through their actions regardless of whether its in their homes, individual communities, state, or nation are commanded to pursue justice and compassion and that includes your actions in the voting booth and town hall.

    You cant say that the government that you elect and that represents you and your values should be held to a different standard than you are. That's not how it works, there is no such compartmentalization in terms of the fruits of mans actions and efforts in Christianity. Unless you live in a totalitarian dictatorship as was the case under Cesar, Christians have to pursue the same values in the voting booth that they do in every other aspect of their lives.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-14-09 at 01:11 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    How many times does this have to be explained? There is a differance between forcing someone else to help others and helping others yourself. Christian virtue is about people doing good at their own free will, not being coerced.

  5. #125
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I give to charity and help the poor. My wife works for an international Christian aid organization as well.

    Now please explain why I should be forced to pay for someone else's health care when I already give to charity?

    That is the difference.
    Okay, I'm starting to understand how a lot of you don't like the concept of being forced.

    But you have to appreciate and understand that others don't see it that way... and that others are prepared to go into it "willingly".

    I would be one of the willing. I wouldn't feel "forced" in any way, because I believe in UHC and would like to see / to know that less people in the world are needlessly suffering...

  6. #126
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Jesus would of course be supportive of health care for everyone.
    In the context of everyone providing it to those that need it from their own free witll, yes.

    But, that doesnt describe UHC, and so its imposible to argue that He would support it.

    Unless, of course, you can show that Jesus supported the idea that people should force others to abide by the tenets of His teachings.

  7. #127
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The conversation here revolves around the idea that Christians should force their teachings on others by supporting UHC.

    When Christians try to force their teachings on others by supporting laws that deny same-sex marriages, there's a big stink.

    Can't have it both ways.
    Jesus didn't even come close to saying anything about same-sex marriage. In fact, most of his teachings could easily be interpreted to show that he would have supported it.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    Okay, I'm starting to understand how a lot of you don't like the concept of being forced.

    But you have to appreciate and understand that others don't see it that way... and that others are prepared to go into it "willingly".
    So let them. No one keeps you or anyone else from providing their own charity to others. But don't think that you can use the teaching of Jesus as an argument for forcing YOUR choice onto others.

  9. #129
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Jesus didn't even come close to saying anything about same-sex marriage. In fact, most of his teachings could easily be interpreted to show that he would have supported it.
    Boy... talk about missing the point.
    Did you do that on purpose?

  10. #130
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Jesus would of course be supportive of health care for everyone. You can't read the gospels and not come to that conclusion. Whether this was accomplished through charitable institutions or government institutions would be irrelevant, but Christian individuals through their actions regardless of whether its in their homes, individual communities, state, or nation are commanded to pursue justice and compassion and that includes your actions in the voting booth and town hall.
    If people come together to help other people voluntarily, then they are all individuals making individual decisions.

    If people are required by law to come together and help other people, there's no moral value there.


    You cant say that the government that you elect and that represents you and your values should be held to a different standard than you are.
    Not sure what that means. How did I do this?


    That's not how it works, there is no such compartmentalization in terms of the fruits of mans actions and efforts in Christianity.
    Sure there is. If all you do is vote to create a UHC system, yet never do anything personally to help anyone, you've done nothing, and in fact you've participated in a system which forces others to do what you consider moral whether they want to or not.

    Jesus had no interest in any such forced morality. Jesus had no interest in governments. As I said, government, politics, and petty earthly concerns of power allocation meant nothing.

    It's entirely about what you do as an individual that matters to God. It's your soul and your soul alone which is judged.


    Unless you live in a totalitarian dictatorship as was the case under Cesar, Christians have to pursue the same values in the voting booth that they do in every other aspect of their lives.
    So?
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