View Poll Results: WWJD?

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  • Support UHC

    18 37.50%
  • Support a "for profit" insurance healthcare system

    12 25.00%
  • Other - explain

    18 37.50%
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Thread: Healthcare question for Christians

  1. #111
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    I still don't understand the concept you use of feeling "forced".
    It's not difficult.

    Someone doesn't want to help others.

    Yet, that person is taxed -- by force -- and the money put to help others. Not a choice that person would have made.


    And I'm still left wondering why it doesn't come natural to want to help others... and why anyone would feel forced... by helping others... which is the rather "benevolent" and "kind" thing to do. Doesn't that come naturally to Christians? Or God, am I that naive and altruistic about Christians...
    It doesn't matter why the person doesn't want to help. That person is still being forced to do so.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #112
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    I still don't understand the concept you use of feeling "forced".
    I give to charity and help the poor. My wife works for an international Christian aid organization as well.

    Now please explain why I should be forced to pay for someone else's health care when I already give to charity?

    That is the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    And I'm still left wondering why it doesn't come natural to want to help others... and why anyone would feel forced... by helping others... which is the rather "benevolent" and "kind" thing to do. Doesn't that come naturally to Christians? Or God, am I that naive and altruistic about Christians...
    You mite as well ask why do people do evil things in general.

    Nothing comes naturally to Christians that would not come naturally to anyone else. Just because we get saved we do not become Christian robots. We are still the same people we always were.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-14-09 at 12:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #113
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I give to charity and help the poor. My wife works for a international Christian aid organization as well.

    Now please explain why I should be forced to pay for someone else's health care when I already give to charity?

    That is the difference.
    That's another facet of the same point -- under UHC, those who already choose to give to the sick and the poor will be forced to give more.

  4. #114
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    As for the opening post . . .

    Jesus expected people to help others.

    Jesus forced no one to do so, nor did he advocate it.

    Jesus had no interest in governments. You should do what's right because it's right. Government was irrelevant. Politics were irrelevant. It's about your individual relationship with God.

    And my understanding of Christian tenets leads me to believe your soul and your salvation are about your individual acts of faith and goodness, not collective ones.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #115
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    As for the opening posts . . .

    Jesus expected people to help others.

    Jesus forced no one to do so, nor did he advocate it.

    Jesus had no interest in governments. You should do what's right because it's right. Government was irrelevant.

    And my understanding of Christian tenets leads me to believe your soul and your salvation are about your individual acts of faith and goodness, not collective ones.
    All points previously made, and all correct.

  6. #116
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    I am going to take another tack. The question was what WWJD not how should current dogma be applied to this situation. Christianity has been twisted to support practically any atrocity or terribly unfair policy. Had the question been what do Christians think about UHC it would warrant all of these different opinions but the question was What would Jesus do? Can anyone seriously tell us that Jesus would bitch about the financial cost of healing the sick? Had the Romans set up free hospitals to give the general populace medical treatment would he have opposed such a move? Can anyone tell me that Jesus would have sided with an insurance company executive on anything?

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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    I am going to take another tack. The question was what WWJD not how should current dogma be applied to this situation. Christianity has been twisted to support practically any atrocity or terribly unfair policy. Had the question been what do Christians think about UHC it would warrant all of these different opinions but the question was What would Jesus do? Can anyone seriously tell us that Jesus would bitch about the financial cost of healing the sick? Had the Romans set up free hospitals to give the general populace medical treatment would he have opposed such a move? Can anyone tell me that Jesus would have sided with an insurance company executive on anything?
    Here is your problem...

    Jesus never got involved in Roman politics, ever. He would not be for or against. He would tell you to worry about your soul and leave it at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #118
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    In a representative democracy, they do indeed collectively choose to pay taxes. If the majority of the individuals in a society decide that they should not pay taxes, then they can petition their government and elect representatives that share their views. Its why some states have state income taxes and others do not for example.
    Willie Nelson would beg to differ

  9. #119
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by angrycarpenter View Post
    Had the Romans set up free hospitals to give the general populace medical treatment would he have opposed such a move? Can anyone tell me that Jesus would have sided with an insurance company executive on anything?
    See my post above.

    He wouldn't have opposed it, but he wouldn't have advocated it, either. He would have found it morally irrelevant. It entirely about what you do as an individual, not as a group. And I would think, given my understanding of Jesus's teachings, that if you advocate for something like UHC but never do anything individually to help people, you've done little of moral value.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #120
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    Re: Healthcare question for Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Willie Nelson would beg to differ
    Well if Willie Nelson does not believe that he should pay taxes, then all all Willie Nelson must do is convince enough of his peers to get the income tax revoked.

    Your ability to petition your government and elect representatives to represent your needs, wants, and values in your government is an example of a positive right that is inherent to any free society.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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