View Poll Results: What are the health care reform protests largely based on?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Anger or Mob Mentality

    4 9.30%
  • Misinformation or No Information

    15 34.88%
  • Genuine Opposition

    20 46.51%
  • Other

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

  1. #1
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    Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    It seems like many protesters of the health care reform bill are doing so because they are misinformed, or they are given no information at all.

    I heard somewhere that the President himself, in an interview, said that everyone is getting the negatives about the health care reform bill and he is trying to stress the positives to the American people. I believe this was in a Time magazine interview, but I might.

    I'm just curious to see how many people will deny this.


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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    It seems like many protesters of the health care reform bill are doing so because they are misinformed, or they are given no information at all.

    I heard somewhere that the President himself, in an interview, said that everyone is getting the negatives about the health care reform bill and he is trying to stress the positives to the American people. I believe this was in a Time magazine interview, but I might.

    I'm just curious to see how many people will deny this.
    I believe that the information they have is either greatly exaggerated or probably not completely true but approaching the argument using only non emotional logic is putting yourself at a disadvantage.
    All the proponents use emotional logical fallacies and appeals to emotion to gain support.

    The premise of the health care bill, when broken down to it's simplest form, is completely illogical and frankly stupid.

    They are basically saying that, "We are going to add more people to the system and it's going to save us money."
    That is the base assertion of the proponents of government health care.

    Now tell me anyone, does that sound like it could be remotely true? Is that at all logical?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Now tell me anyone, does that sound like it could be remotely true? Is that at all logical?
    Yes actually, yes it does. But mainly because that's on the only thing to the bill.

    There's the problem right there, people see it as "more government involvement" and run for the hills instead of reading and listening.

    What's the other option? Letting the health industry walk by itself and destroy itself in 20-odd years.


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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    It seems like many protesters of the health care reform bill are doing so because they are misinformed, or they are given no information at all.

    I heard somewhere that the President himself, in an interview, said that everyone is getting the negatives about the health care reform bill and he is trying to stress the positives to the American people. I believe this was in a Time magazine interview, but I might.

    I'm just curious to see how many people will deny this.
    There is one thing that Obama cannot deny. That insurance will be mandated under the bill as it stands now. If you don't have it then you get fined. That is in essense a tax for simply living.

    Link

    5 TITLE IV—AMENDMENTS TO IN
    6 TERNAL REVENUE CODE OF
    7 1986
    8 Subtitle A—Shared Responsibility
    9 PART 1—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
    10 SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
    11 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
    12 (a) IN GENERAL.—Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the
    13 Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at
    14 the end the following new part:
    15 ‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES
    ‘‘SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE
    COVERAGE.
    16 ‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
    17 Health Care Coverage
    ‘‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
    18 ‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
    19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
    20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
    21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
    22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
    23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
    VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00167 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
    168
    •HR 3200 IH
    1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in2
    come for the taxable year, over
    3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
    4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
    Starts on page 167.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 08-11-09 at 05:52 AM.
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Yes actually, yes it does. But mainly because that's on the only thing to the bill.

    There's the problem right there, people see it as "more government involvement" and run for the hills instead of reading and listening.

    What's the other option? Letting the health industry walk by itself and destroy itself in 20-odd years.
    So increased demand results in lower prices?
    That defies any and every view of modern economics taught today.

    I don't like health insurance as a main vehicle of health care but between the government plan and what we have now, I'd take that any day.
    The health industry is far, far away from free market.

    We have to remember that we are in a cycle of increased demand because baby boomers are retiring putting higher demands on the over all health care system. Prices will naturally rise in that environment.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So increased demand results in lower prices?
    That defies any and every view of modern economics taught today.
    Who are you quoting? When did I say that?

    I don't like health insurance as a main vehicle of health care but between the government plan and what we have now, I'd take that any day.
    The health industry is far, far away from free market.

    We have to remember that we are in a cycle of increased demand because baby boomers are retiring putting higher demands on the over all health care system. Prices will naturally rise in that environment.
    You mean prices of insurance?


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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Who are you quoting? When did I say that?
    I said, "Now tell me anyone, does that sound like it could be remotely true? Is that at all logical?"

    You said, "Yes actually, yes it does. But mainly because that's on the only thing to the bill."

    Did I miss something or am I confused on what you were referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    You mean prices of insurance?
    The overall price of health care will have to naturally rise, because of the extra burden of elderly users.

    It will trickle down to insurance prices as well.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    It seems like many protesters of the health care reform bill are doing so because they are misinformed, or they are given no information at all.

    I heard somewhere that the President himself, in an interview, said that everyone is getting the negatives about the health care reform bill and he is trying to stress the positives to the American people. I believe this was in a Time magazine interview, but I might.

    I'm just curious to see how many people will deny this.
    I had to vote other in your poll, since to my mind, it is some of all of those. Some is based on misinformation, some is based on repubs saying no to anything a dem wants to do, and some is based on real issues seen with the bill.

    The sad part in all this is the mob mentality on both sides, which is making it harder to get real, accurate information out, and making it hard for people to voice real, considered opposition.

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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    People don't like the plan in its current form. Simple as that.




    Gestures, in love, are incomparably more attractive, effective and valuable than words.
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    It seems like many protesters of the health care reform bill are doing so because they are misinformed, or they are given no information at all.

    I heard somewhere that the President himself, in an interview, said that everyone is getting the negatives about the health care reform bill and he is trying to stress the positives to the American people. I believe this was in a Time magazine interview, but I might.

    I'm just curious to see how many people will deny this.
    I think it is mostly just genuine opposition to government healthcare. Sure there are a few people who might be misinformed but that is no different than the people who thought that they were not going to have worry about their bills and mortgage under Obama.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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