View Poll Results: What are the health care reform protests largely based on?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Anger or Mob Mentality

    4 9.30%
  • Misinformation or No Information

    15 34.88%
  • Genuine Opposition

    20 46.51%
  • Other

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

  1. #41
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Um, Harry, that's how insurance works. By making subscribers pay premiums and paying out relatively little each year, insurance providers make bank. Furthermore, that's how a derivative works. By adding more people, you save money.
    Insurance, assuming they live up to their end of the bargain, allow you to be more productive with your money as well. This whole argument for individual health savings accounts with high deductible insurance to me is absurd. The whole point of insurance, public or private, is so that individuals can share risk and pool their resources rather than having to set aside large amounts of money to do nothing but cover current and future risks.

    If you ask me the "Cafeteria Plans" for out of pocket health expenses make great sense from a financial perspective because its pre-tax money that is applied to out of pocket health expenses that year - as in money you know you will spend out of pocket towards health care that year. However, to set aside thousands of dollars in an HSA to cover expenses not covered by a Catastrophic Only Policy is a very inefficient use of your financial resources. That money would be far better put towards your retirement or childs college. Sure, it makes you more cognizant of healthcare expenses, but that could just as easily be accomplished by allowing employers and insurers to base premiums on risks associated with your lifestyle choices such as paying higher premiums if you smoke or our clinically obese rather than allowing others to subsidize your poor life choices.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-12-09 at 12:22 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    1. No bills up for consideration provide for a single payer system so nothing would be rationed beyond what current private insurers cover or not as is.
    Hmmm.....you a fan of Stephen King? Ever read "Salem's Lot"? Remember the scene near the end when Ben Mears, the kid, and Dr. Cody are searching for the vampire and Dr Cody blithely walks down the stairs, only to discover the stairs are cut away and only enough was left to con him into falling onto the knives on the floor below?


    Hmmm.....careful that first step, boy, it could be missing.


    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    2. Obama is on "government health care".
    I KNOW you're not stupid enough to believe that Congressmen and ex-presidents are going to get the same shoddy coverage us peons will under Messiah-care. I KNOW you're smart enough to know exactly what I meant.

    So why did you post this?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 08-12-09 at 12:29 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Obamacare is going to mandate home visits to make sure you are raising your children according to the state's standards instead of your own. Your home and family are not your own anymore.

    YouTube - That's the change they need

    Folks this is just one more reason why you were not supposed to vote for Obama. We had a free country and you voted to "change" that.
    People....turn off your right-wing radio and actually get informed and educated. Posts like this are what happen when you rely on people like Limbaugh, Savage and Hannity for your information.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #44
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    People....turn off your right-wing radio and actually get informed and educated. Posts like this are what happen when you rely on people like Limbaugh, Savage and Hannity for your information.
    For these people ignorance and stupidity is a badge of honor. People that follow these bastions of stupidity should be classified as 'special needs'.

  5. #45
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Because the president is not some loon claiming there will be government death panels and the president is not some hypocrite on Medicare railing against the disabled and asking them "why should I pay for your medical care".
    Yes, but he is the President who is trying to fundamentally alter our health care system in a way that he does not even understand. To me, that is far more grievous an offense than spreading misinformation. I mean, how does Obama even know it's misinformation when he doesn't know what's in the bill?
    Last edited by Ethereal; 08-12-09 at 02:44 AM.

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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    A combination of the first two with a pinch of the third.

  7. #47
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Before you even try to get to any details of the bill ask yourself this:

    When have you ever seen the Government run a trillion $ operation in an
    effective or efficient manner ???

    They will rob us blind before the DR. can say open your mouth and say aaah !

    Secondly you should go read up on Socialism and Communism (in th political
    sense) and go see how well those countries are doing. Then realize that
    Socialism and Communism are euphemisms for Dictatorship !

    Thirdly if you can't afford health insurance and 45.000.000 other people in
    America can't afford health insurance and America is in >$11,000,000,000,000
    of debt. How in the world do you expect to pay for all this health Care ??????

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

  8. #48
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Um, Harry, that's how insurance works. By making subscribers pay premiums and paying out relatively little each year, insurance providers make bank. Furthermore, that's how a derivative works. By adding more people, you save money.
    That is true if and only if those people who have the insurance don't use it regularly.
    I understand the concept of insurance, however, health insurance isn't really insurance but more similar to a prepayment plan.

    The government sponsored plan will have artificially low costs and no entry restrictions. I guarantee it will raise costs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Insurance, assuming they live up to their end of the bargain, allow you to be more productive with your money as well. This whole argument for individual health savings accounts with high deductible insurance to me is absurd. The whole point of insurance, public or private, is so that individuals can share risk and pool their resources rather than having to set aside large amounts of money to do nothing but cover current and future risks.

    If you ask me the "Cafeteria Plans" for out of pocket health expenses make great sense from a financial perspective because its pre-tax money that is applied to out of pocket health expenses that year - as in money you know you will spend out of pocket towards health care that year. However, to set aside thousands of dollars in an HSA to cover expenses not covered by a Catastrophic Only Policy is a very inefficient use of your financial resources. That money would be far better put towards your retirement or childs college. Sure, it makes you more cognizant of healthcare expenses, but that could just as easily be accomplished by allowing employers and insurers to base premiums on risks associated with your lifestyle choices such as paying higher premiums if you smoke or our clinically obese rather than allowing others to subsidize your poor life choices.
    HSA money can be put into interesting earning accounts and can be withdrawn like IRA contributions without penalties after retirement age.

    "A health savings account (HSA), is a tax-advantaged medical savings account available to taxpayers in the United States who are enrolled in a High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP). The funds contributed to the account are not subject to federal income tax at the time of deposit. Unlike a flexible spending account (FSA), funds roll over and accumulate year over year if not spent. HSAs are owned by the individual, which differentiates them from the company-owned Health Reimbursement Arrangement (HRA) that is an alternate tax-deductible source of funds paired with HDHPs. Funds may be used to pay for qualified medical expenses at any time without federal tax liability. Withdrawals for non-medical expenses are treated very similarly to those in an IRA in that they may provide tax advantages if taken after retirement age, and they incur penalties if taken earlier. These accounts are a component of consumer driven health care."

    "Funds in an HSA can be invested in a manner similar to investments in an Individual Retirement Account (IRA). Investment earnings are sheltered from taxation until the money is withdrawn (and can be sheltered even then, as discussed in the section below)."

    "While HSAs can be "rolled over" from fund to fund, an HSA cannot be rolled into an IRA or a 401(k), and funds from these types of investment vehicles cannot be rolled into an HSA, except for the one time IRA transfer allowed above. Unlike some employer contributions to a 401(k) plan, all HSA contributions belong to the participant immediately, regardless of the deposit source. A person contributing to an HSA is under no obligation to contribute to his or her employer-sponsored HSA, although employers may require that payroll contributions be made only to the sponsored HSA plan."

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account]Health savings account - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #50
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Well you proved yourself that a lack of information can lead one to draw incorrect conclusions. Maybe it is best to look into what we are already paying to treat the uninsured. Then compare that cost to what the current estimated cost will be. Just a suggestion, that if you wish to actually be informed.
    The current estimated costs doesn't follow logic. Have Obama's estimates ever been correct? He said unemployment would not go up, it did. In the past the government has said programs would be much cheaper than they really were.

    The Obama administration is basically saying that "We will add people to the system and lower costs" at the same time. Adding more people to a healthcare system will cost MORE money. How can that cost less? The estimates are not "facts" mind you, your arrogance is not impressive.

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