View Poll Results: What are the health care reform protests largely based on?

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  • Anger or Mob Mentality

    4 9.30%
  • Misinformation or No Information

    15 34.88%
  • Genuine Opposition

    20 46.51%
  • Other

    4 9.30%
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Thread: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

  1. #11
    Educator sam_w's Avatar
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I believe that the information they have is either greatly exaggerated or probably not completely true but approaching the argument using only non emotional logic is putting yourself at a disadvantage.
    All the proponents use emotional logical fallacies and appeals to emotion to gain support.

    The premise of the health care bill, when broken down to it's simplest form, is completely illogical and frankly stupid.

    They are basically saying that, "We are going to add more people to the system and it's going to save us money."
    That is the base assertion of the proponents of government health care.

    Now tell me anyone, does that sound like it could be remotely true? Is that at all logical?
    Well you proved yourself that a lack of information can lead one to draw incorrect conclusions. Maybe it is best to look into what we are already paying to treat the uninsured. Then compare that cost to what the current estimated cost will be. Just a suggestion, that if you wish to actually be informed.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiswoman View Post
    People don't like the plan in its current form. Simple as that.
    Most do not seem to have a clue to what is in the bill. Others can not seem to understand that there are currently several bills still being debated, hence nothing is in stone. And then of course there are the "Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!‎" folks that shows me that Darwin is not perfect at weeding out the stupid in humans like he is with the rest of the animal world.

  2. #12
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    The entrenched interests, who stand to lose from any reforms are feeding much misinformation to these groups, if not right-out paying these people to protest, but such is the way in challenging the status quo.

  3. #13
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Most do not seem to have a clue to what is in the bill. Others can not seem to understand that there are currently several bills still being debated, hence nothing is in stone. And then of course there are the "Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!‎" folks that shows me that Darwin is not perfect at weeding out the stupid in humans like he is with the rest of the animal world.
    It has been pointed out in other threads that some $200+ Billion of HR3200 is "paid for" by cutting Medicare reimbursements (at a time when increasing numbers of doctors are opting out of Medicare).

    Telling Dear Leader, Queen Nancy, and Henry Taxman to not run off even more doctors from the Medicare program may be rather unsubtle thinking, but it is hardly uninformed thinking.

  4. #14
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    What's the other option? Letting the health industry walk by itself and destroy itself in 20-odd years.
    Actually, there is yet another option--actually reforming the health care marketplace.

    People are protesting because this bill is 1,000 pages of regulating to keep the status quo. There's not a single "reform" to be found within its dense legalese.

  5. #15
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Maybe it is best to look into what we are already paying to treat the uninsured. Then compare that cost to what the current estimated cost will be. Just a suggestion, that if you wish to actually be informed.
    I think this is the biggest misconception. If said currently uninsured people are granted insurance all medical costs are still paid for. The costs and payments will still be there the only difference will be whos footing the bill. So instead of the hospitals taking a loss by uninsured persons we will instead have tax payers paying the bill. Its not money saving its changing the route in which the money is paid.
    Last edited by Baralis; 08-11-09 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #16
    Educator sam_w's Avatar
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I think this is the biggest misconception. If said currently uninsured people are granted insurance all medical costs are still paid for. The costs and payments will still be there the only difference will be whos footing the bill. So instead of the hospitals taking a loss by uninsured persons we will instead have tax payers paying the bill.
    We have another winner of ignorance. Here is an idea for you..why don't you actually look into who is actually footing the bill. Seriously people, this is not exactly that difficult or time consuming to look up.

  7. #17
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    We have another winner of ignorance. Here is an idea for you..why don't you actually look into who is actually footing the bill. Seriously people, this is not exactly that difficult or time consuming to look up.
    If i understand your argument it is the hospitals are getting stuck with billions of dollars worth of treatments to uninsured persons. The cost is then pushed off to the consumer by higher costs.

    My argument is the money is still paid period. So while a actual procedures may become cheaper with national insurance the money is still coming out of the people pockets to make up the difference aka taxes or insurance premiums.

  8. #18
    Educator sam_w's Avatar
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    If i understand your argument it is the hospitals are getting stuck with billions of dollars worth of treatments to uninsured persons. The cost is then pushed off to the consumer by higher costs.

    My argument is the money is still paid period. So while a actual procedures may become cheaper with national insurance the money is still coming out of the people pockets to make up the difference aka taxes or insurance premiums.
    The Institute of Medicine of the National Academies published in 2003 "Hidden Costs, Values Lost: Uninsurance in America":
    NCHC Health Insurance Coverage
    • The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis
    • Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year
    • Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage


    So in 2003 we paid out $100bn already to treat the uninsured, plus $34bn to hospitals, and $37bn by private and public payers (state). This as opposed to $100bn for the entire reform bill including public option. You do the math.

  9. #19
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    The Institute of Medicine of the National Academies published in 2003 "Hidden Costs, Values Lost: Uninsurance in America":
    NCHC Health Insurance Coverage
    • The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis
    • Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year
    • Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage


    So in 2003 we paid out $100bn already to treat the uninsured, plus $34bn to hospitals, and $37bn by private and public payers (state). This as opposed to $100bn for the entire reform bill including public option. You do the math.
    This is what I gather from your argument. That uninsured persons cost us (both private and public) billions a year. My argument is this will not change.

  10. #20
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    Re: Health Care Protests Based On Misinformation?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It has been pointed out in other threads that some $200+ Billion of HR3200 is "paid for" by cutting Medicare reimbursements (at a time when increasing numbers of doctors are opting out of Medicare).

    Telling Dear Leader, Queen Nancy, and Henry Taxman to not run off even more doctors from the Medicare program may be rather unsubtle thinking, but it is hardly uninformed thinking.
    Actually, under the new bill proposed, doctors would make more on Medicare cases than they now do.

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