View Poll Results: Where is it most likely for there to be a mass shooting

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • Police station

    0 0%
  • National guard base

    0 0%
  • Gun show

    0 0%
  • NRA national matches

    0 0%
  • School/college campus

    27 69.23%
  • Shopping mall

    4 10.26%
  • Other (specify)

    8 20.51%
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Thread: Mass shootings are more likely at...

  1. #161
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: Mass shootings are more likely at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That and $1.00 proves you have enough money to buy a an order of froied an McD.


    I am? Have I claimed that?
    Or, have I continually asked for a supportable reason to think that the available of guns is NOT a factor?
    Its a subtle difference; hopefully you will follow that simple difference

    And so, I ask again:
    Why do killers NOT choose to engage their targets at places where there are lots of people with guns.
    And as I have stated, it could be any number of reasons. The fact that guns are present is not highly likely to be one. The risk in either place is so low as to be disregarded.

  2. #162
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    Re: Mass shootings are more likely at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And as I have stated, it could be any number of reasons.
    You missed the "supportable" part. Haven't seen one of those.

    The fact that guns are present is not highly likely to be one
    Support this.

  3. #163
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    Re: Mass shootings are more likely at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    But there ARE guns present in schools. I already discussed this.

    That's the problem. Mass shootings DO happen in places where people are armed. That's why the poll is logically flawed. Statistically speaking, the presence of guns does not deter mass shootings the way guns may deter more predatory/opportunistic types of crimes.

    I think it's great to argue gun rights. But we should do so without using false information or assumptions.

    Do guns deter crime? Absolutely. Do guns deter mass shootings (a very specific type of crime with a very specific, ideologically motivated perpetrator)? No. They don't.

    /discussion.

    I'll concede that you may have a point. I have not studied in depth the mindset of those who engage in these mass-murder sprees, as differentiated from ordinary criminals and serial killers (whom I have studied).

    Possibly they are not deterred by the presence of armed persons, as a general thing. Possibly the reason these shootings tend to happen in places where the majority of the victims are unarmed is chance... I'm willing to entertain the idea at least.

    But, let's consider some mathmatics.

    If a University has 5000 students, 500 teachers and staff, and 5 campus police officers on duty, and only the five campus cops are armed...that gives us 1 person in 1,100 who is armed. This would tend to give a mass-shooter a pretty good array of victims to kill before an armed person arrived on the scene to stop him, unless he were careless or unlucky enough to blunder into one of the five cops immediately.

    Now lets say that those with concealed carry permits are allowed to carry on campus. This means those who are 21 or older and have completed the required background checks, range score, written test, etc...responsible adults who cared enough to jump through all the hoops.

    Florida has a population of about 18 million. Of these, about 1.2 million have concealed carry permits (CCW hereafter).

    (source Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That is a percentage of about 7%.

    The hypothetical university above has 500 staff. It has 5000 students, of which let's assume 1000 are 21 or older (just a reasonable guess, 20%). That gives us 1500 adults, at 7% means probably 105 CCW holders.

    105 CCW holders, compared to 5 campus cops. Now let's cut that number; in my experience about half of CCW people actually carry on a daily basis, so let's say only 55 are actually carrying at the time of an incident (assuming it was lawful to carry on the campus...in most states it isn't.)

    If the would-be mass shooter has 5 armed campus cops to avoid, he could rack up quite a body count before being stopped...as witness Virginia Tech. If he had 5 cops and 55 armed CCW citizens (the latter being hidden among the general population, their weapons being concealed and them not in uniform), we just increased his chances of being stopped early by 11 times...that's a 1,100% increase.

    The odds that among the first 20 people to encounter the mass-murderer, there will be a campus cop are one in 55. If we factor CCW into the equation, the odds become 1 in 5. Bear in mind that at VAtech, many people saw or heard the shooter without getting shot, mostly by hiding, barricading a door or running away. The likelihood that this guy could walk around shooting dozens of people with impunity as happened at VA just decreased eleven-fold.


    I'm not talking about deterrence effect here, really. I'm talking about someone putting a 115-grain hollowpoint thru Mr. Mass Murder's brainpan and ending him right there.


    Personally I think it is well worth legalizing CCW on campus, not only for this reason but because of the right of responsible, law-abiding adults to bear arms. The vast majority of universities recieve public funds to some degree; this makes them liable as "a public institution" does it not? Then a public institution should no more deny responsible adults their 2A rights than it should their 1A rights.


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  4. #164
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    Re: Mass shootings are more likely at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You missed the "supportable" part. Haven't seen one of those.


    Support this.
    You have not offered a supportable position, in fact, you have supported nothing yet. You have implied that somehow places with guns are safer from mass killers, but considering that the chance of being killed anywhere by a mass killer is so microscopically low, the fact that no one has been killed by a mass killer at a gun show is meaningless. No one has been killed by a mass killer in my hometown either, why might that be? Is it because of guns?

  5. #165
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    Re: Mass shootings are more likely at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You have not offered a supportable position...
    You havent noticed?
    I haven't taken a position.

    However, YOU have.

    Now, support your position that, while ther may be any mumber of reasons why these people do not go after their targets when the are guns around the poresence of those guns is not highly likely to be one of them.

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