View Poll Results: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

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  • Yes, we are a socialist country

    7 10.61%
  • No, we are a capitalist country

    17 25.76%
  • We have been partly socialist and capitalist for decades

    39 59.09%
  • Other

    3 4.55%
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Thread: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    I think worrying about whether or not the US falls into a completely undefined label of "socialist" or not is absolutely pointless and detracts from the debates of stuff that actually matters. So by all means argue about UHC but do it on points that matter, like cost, availability, etc but don't argue on whether it fits into someone's individual definition of "socialist" or not.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Say what you honestly think.
    We are a capitalist country with a few socialist styled programs. The whole socialism thing being talked about endlessly now is just a case of namecalling by those on the right.

  3. #23
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Healthy citizens are productive are they not?
    Seriously, Medicaid, Medicare, and Welfare is nothing more than a type of insurance. There are many forms of production. There are the material types of producing something. IE steel, cars, food etc etc. And then there are non-material types of producing something. Such as health.
    That's a pretty unusual and broad definition of "means of production" you're using there. Can't say as I have seen anything quite like it before.

    for example:
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production"]Means of production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    Means of production (abbreviated MoP; [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language"]German[/ame]: Produktionsmittel), are things used by human labourers to create products. They include two broad categories of objects: instruments of labour (tools, factories, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrastructure"]infrastructure[/ame], etc.) and subjects of labour (natural resources and raw materials). People operate on the subjects of labour, using the instruments of labour, to create a product; or, stated another way, labour acting on the means of production creates a product.[1]
    The term can be simply and picturesquely described in an agrarian society as the soil and the shovel; in an industrial society, the mines and the factories.
    As I said earlier, if you are willing to use unusual definitions, then you could say that the US is socialist (or most anything else you would like).
    Usually though, MoP is defined a bit more narrowly.
    I may be wrong.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Say what you honestly think.
    I would have to say we are a capitalist country with a few socialist programs and we are heading towards socialist.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #25
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's a pretty unusual and broad definition of "means of production" you're using there. Can't say as I have seen anything quite like it before.

    for example:
    Means of production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Means of production (abbreviated MoP; German: Produktionsmittel), are things used by human labourers to create products. They include two broad categories of objects: instruments of labour (tools, factories, infrastructure, etc.) and subjects of labour (natural resources and raw materials). People operate on the subjects of labour, using the instruments of labour, to create a product; or, stated another way, labour acting on the means of production creates a product.[1]
    The term can be simply and picturesquely described in an agrarian society as the soil and the shovel; in an industrial society, the mines and the factories.
    As I said earlier, if you are willing to use unusual definitions, then you could say that the US is socialist (or most anything else you would like).
    Usually though, MoP is defined a bit more narrowly.
    It's all in how you look at things. Think about this. Say a person works at a car factory. They help build the cars but they cannot take that car home because it is not theirs. It is the owner of the company's car. That person is just a tool to the car company owner. Remember no one is really irreplaceable to a company. The car company owner sells that car generating revenue which is then taxed by the government. And the person that builds the car is also taxed on their check. Everyone that pays taxes is in effect a tool for the government to make money to do what they need (want (<---also depends on how you look at things)) to do.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It's all in how you look at things. Think about this. Say a person works at a car factory. They help build the cars but they cannot take that car home because it is not theirs. It is the owner of the company's car. That person is just a tool to the car company owner. Remember no one is really irreplaceable to a company. The car company owner sells that car generating revenue which is then taxed by the government. And the person that builds the car is also taxed on their check. Everyone that pays taxes is in effect a tool for the government to make money to do what they need (want (<---also depends on how you look at things)) to do.
    Well, like I said if you're willing to radically redefine things you can come up with w/e sort of thing you like.
    Generally, humans are considered something other than equipment.

    But, yes, if you're willing to start using alternative definitions, then you can have w/e point you would like.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #27
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Combination of both and have been for some time. It remains to be seen if we will end up socialistic in the future. I have my concerns.




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  8. #28
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    not even close and to boot Obama isn't a socialist either. nor is he a communist.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    We've had a mixture for awhile. Government ran programs mixed with laissez faire.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

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    Re: Are We Now a Socialist Country?

    Why are we a socialist nation again? Do you believe that since .2% of industry or so is nationalized that we qualify as socialist? Do you honestly think that the working class is running the show? That labor has it too good? I pose a new question: Is the United States now an ostrich egg? And I assure you that the United States has more in common with an ostrich egg than it does with a socialist state.
    Again, Obama is a capitalist-nationalist. The fact that he pays the most basic consideration to the middle class does not make him a socialist, it's just such a shock to those sheltered all their lives in the right-wing bubble.
    "We may have destroyed this country, but we got rich doing it!" --The GOP
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