• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is dissent the highest form of patriotism?

Is dissent the highest form patriotism?

  • Total voters
    30
Harshaw

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,845
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Many of you said so, even only several months ago.

Still think so?
 
No, service to one's country is the highest form of patriotism. Dissent comes in a close second.
 
Ethereal said:
No, service to one's country is the highest form of patriotism. Dissent comes in a close second.
Click to expand...
Have to disagree. Without dissent, service to country is easily rendered blind obedience. For everyone, there comes a point where every person has to stop and question the wisdom of their leaders--and those who refuse to do so are not rendering any good service to anyone.
 
Dissent, no. Working to improve your country in whatever way you are able to is the highest form of patriotism.
 
Let's assassinate the President. That's dissent right? I guess Oswald and Boothe are our greatest Americans.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I think that patriotism is a foolish concept to be honest.
Click to expand...

Yet, its this foolish concept that wins wars for America. The most patriotic minded nation in the world has a track record for winning. France has a history of losing land to invaders while relying upon outsiders for salvation and they mock our patriotism. Coincidence?
 
GySgt said:
Yet, its this foolish concept that wins wars for America. The most patriotic minded nation in the world has a track record for winning. France has a history of losing land to invaders while relying upon outsiders for salvation and they mock our patriotism. Coincidence?
Click to expand...

I don't think it is wise to show love or devotion for an individuals place of residence solely because they were born there no.

I don't care what the French or anyone else does for that matter.
 
GySgt said:
Let's assassinate the President. That's dissent right?
Click to expand...
Is it?

Dissent
  • Pronunciation: \di-ˈsent\
  • Function: intransitive verb
  • Etymology: Middle English, from Latin dissentire, from dis- + sentire to feel — more at sense
  • Date: 15th century
1 : to withhold assent
2 : to differ in opinion
Click to expand...
Assassinate
  • Pronunciation: \ə-ˈsa-sə-ˌnāt\
  • Function: transitive verb
  • Inflected Form(s): as·sas·si·nat·ed; as·sas·si·nat·ing
  • Date: 1607
1 : to injure or destroy unexpectedly and treacherously
2 : to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons
Click to expand...
Killing someone for political gain is not an expression of disagreement over one's opinions, but the outright dismissal of those opinions. That's not dissent, merely a more cold-blooded form of political chicanery.

If there is no dissent, how can anything be made better? Improvement starts with disagreement over the status quo (as you so eloquently pointed out in the Marines v Army thread).
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't think it is wise to show love or devotion for an individuals place of residence solely because they were born there no.
Click to expand...
How about showing love and devotion to your place of residence because you live there?

I am glad I was born in this country, but my patriotism arises from the fact that I like living in this country.
 
celticlord said:
How about showing love and devotion to your place of residence because you live there?

I am glad I was born in this country, but my patriotism arises from the fact that I like living in this country.
Click to expand...

I just think that someone showing patriotism while their country is doing things that are not in their long term best interest is stupid.

It's great we were born here no doubt, but would a person showing patriotism because they lived in Uganda be right in doing so?

I think it can lead to greatly terrible things, as parts of nationalism seep into the definition of patriotism.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It's great we were born here no doubt, but would a person showing patriotism because they lived in Uganda be right in doing so?
Click to expand...

Yes. I have a great deal of respect for the people in this country, even though I disagree with many of them. I love my country, even though I don't always like what we as a country do. I think patriotism is not about thinking your country is perfect, but about taking pride in what you do right.
 
celticlord said:
Killing someone for political gain is not an expression of disagreement over one's opinions, but the outright dismissal of those opinions. That's not dissent, merely a more cold-blooded form of political chicanery.
Click to expand...

Or a cold blooded form of dissent? I think assassinating a politician pretty much sums up a disagreement of sorts.

Dissent, protests, etc. is a must. But I wouldn't call it the greatest form of patriotism. Our recent history is full of people dissenting over their ignorant opinions without understanding a thing outside their borders.
 
Redress said:
Yes. I have a great deal of respect for the people in this country, even though I disagree with many of them. I love my country, even though I don't always like what we as a country do. I think patriotism is not about thinking your country is perfect, but about taking pride in what you do right.
Click to expand...

I don't know, I've seen "patriotism" used for nefarious purposes for which I completely disagree.
It is usually accompanied by a tag line with which ignorant people run around quoting to silence criticism.

I just don't feel the connection like others I suppose.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't know, I've seen "patriotism" used for nefarious purposes for which I completely disagree.
It is usually accompanied by a tag line with which ignorant people run around quoting to silence criticism.

I just don't feel the connection like others I suppose.
Click to expand...

I have seen guns used for nefarious purposes for which I completely disagree. Does not mean that guns are bad.
 
Redress said:
I have seen guns used for nefarious purposes for which I completely disagree. Does not mean that guns are bad.
Click to expand...

I understand that, I guess it's best to be skeptical of anyone using the term patriotism to support something.
I think it can be a tool for manipulation and would prefer a love of local community or a love of the general idea's that a country represents.

I'm glad your back btw your definitely one of my favorite liberals. :2wave:
 
GySgt said:
Or a cold blooded form of dissent? I think assassinating a politician pretty much sums up a disagreement of sorts.

Dissent, protests, etc. is a must. But I wouldn't call it the greatest form of patriotism. Our recent history is full of people dissenting over their ignorant opinions without understanding a thing outside their borders.
Click to expand...
Oh, there's no denying that there's a lot of dumb dissent out there. Still, if someone disagrees with the status quo, for whatever reason, without a little dissent, nothing will ever get done about the status quo.

I look at it this way--without dissent, this country would not exist. Dissent may not always be right, but it's always necessary--and that is why I put it at the top.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I understand that, I guess it's best to be skeptical of anyone using the term patriotism to support something.
I think it can be a tool for manipulation and would prefer a love of local community or a love of the general idea's that a country represents.

I'm glad your back btw your definitely one of my favorite liberals. :2wave:
Click to expand...

I think we should be skeptical of everything. Patriotism, like most things, can be used for good(people taking pride in their country, and therefore working to improve it), or bad(patriotism as an excuse for xenophobia).

Thanks, it's good to be back.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I just think that someone showing patriotism while their country is doing things that are not in their long term best interest is stupid.
Click to expand...
Long term best interest is a vague notion--and not easily defined.

People should stand up for what they believe is right. They should articulate their beliefs forcefully, whether they agree or disagree with the majority.
 
celticlord said:
Oh, there's no denying that there's a lot of dumb dissent out there. Still, if someone disagrees with the status quo, for whatever reason, without a little dissent, nothing will ever get done about the status quo.

I look at it this way--without dissent, this country would not exist. Dissent may not always be right, but it's always necessary--and that is why I put it at the top.
Click to expand...

Dissent without action is useless. Sitting at home bitching about democrats, or republicans, or politicians, is worthless. Action is needed.
 
My own personal definition of patriotism is the profound respect given to those who came before you for that which they passed on to you, and the realization that you owe to them and to those that come after you to pass along an even better situation than the one into which you came.

As far as I'm concerned, the phrase "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" is only true if that dissent is in respect to those from whom you inherited this country and in view of the best interests of those to whom you will leave the country after your time has come and gone.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently due to a certain family event, and I have come to the conclusion above. I guess I'm still an unrepentent nationalist in a lot of ways, largely due to the sacrifices of those whose blood I share.

/soapbox
 
Redress said:
Dissent without action is useless. Sitting at home bitching about democrats, or republicans, or politicians, is worthless. Action is needed.
Click to expand...
Dissent is the action in my book.
 
celticlord said:
Dissent is the action in my book.
Click to expand...

Saying "no" is nothing. Saying "no, this idea here is better", and working for that idea is valuable.
 
In America, where one of our ideals is freedom of expression toward a robust marketplace of ideas, dissent can be a high expression of patriotism.

Dissent as Celticlord has defined it, is absolutely necessary to the well-functioning of our democratic republic. For example, if Obama proposes a health care overhaul, then those who disagree with it ought to vigorously express and gain an audience for the ideas that comprise their opposition.

I would imagine that some people here think of the disruptions at town hall meetings as 'dissent' when actually they are more a form of civil disobedience that expresses a distrust of the notion of freedom of speech. As such, they run counter to the notion of a marketplace of ideas, and are thereby entirely un-patriotic.

A democracy cannot function when disrespect toward one's fellow citizen arises in the form of wishing to drown out their voice. I have said so many times here when stating that I passionately want the Democrats to ensure that Republicans are a well represented voice during the time that they are minority in our government.
 
Harshaw said:
Many of you said so, even only several months ago.

Still think so?
Click to expand...

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom