View Poll Results: What do you want in the Health Reform Bill

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  • Option 1

    5 35.71%
  • Option 2

    2 14.29%
  • Option 3

    1 7.14%
  • Option 4

    9 64.29%
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Thread: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

  1. #21
    Advisor Sanitas's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    These healthcare reform riots are quite unsettling. They are so counter intuitive to the progression of this country. If one is opposed to a healthcare reform bill, that's alright. It's a political opinion, and we all have plenty of those. However, rioting is going to get this country nowhere. Those opposed to the healthcare bill should be the most willing to discuss the bill and haggle a deal. Senseless protests will get the entire country nowhere, because, in politics there is no "my way or the highway option". We must civilly formulate some sort of plan to appease to the general populace. However, this cannot be done in town hall meetings where screeching matches between representatives and disgruntled citizens erupt. Now, I totally agree with the American right to protest. This "right to protest" can be brought about in several ways. One is taking the the street with hateful messages, referring to Barack Obama as a Nazi. Another (the preferable option), is opponents and proponents to the bill CIVILLY coming together to discuss our options as American citizens, because frankly, we have the right to civilly discuss things. If you don't like something, do something about it instead of getting angry and shoving people around. That is how progress is made, and how ignorance is dealt with. Both sides of the bill must know what the other stands for. If one thinks proponents of the healthcare bill are Nazi sympathizers, then hopefully, ignorance is bliss. I for one would like a civil discussion to take place between both sides so that I can weigh each option out carefully before making any sort of predisposed of opinion.


    PS: Thank God for the this forum. At least debate happens here.
    Last edited by Sanitas; 08-07-09 at 04:37 PM.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  2. #22
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    However, rioting is going to get this country nowhere.
    You must be strongly against ACORN, I would hope. Oh, and btw, this country exists because of one big riot, and slavery has ended because of another "riot". Civil rights were giving to women and African Americans because of protests. To say protesting will get this country nowhere is...well...not exactly taking into account the past.

    Why is it that when conservatives protest, they are labeled as evil angry mobs, yet when anyone else protests they are simply exercising free speech?
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-07-09 at 05:14 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    if a private insurer interacts with a hosiptial/patient/doctor, what gov't involvement is there?
    I am saying that reducing the costs to insurers will reduce the cost to their clients.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  4. #24
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Why do many people jump to this? One of the ever-popular lame talking points is "we need to take care of ourselves." If history has taught us anything, its that we cannot take too many things into our own hands. I mean sure I would love to have people who mind their health enough to be "relatively fit" but people won't listen to that, especially in the U.S.

    This whole country is built on the concept of impatience. Who's to say that part of the structure doesn't include laziness as well? Come on, its America, the land of the free and the home of the lazy and impatient.
    People can be lazy if they want to be, but that does not mean everyone else should have to take care of them. That just breeds more laziness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Right, so ... the industry should seek out those who work hard and care about themselves enough and give healthcare to them only? That's hilarious.
    Not what I said at all.

    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  5. #25
    Advisor Realist1's Avatar
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    As the bill currently makes its way trough committee, there are 4 scenarios that could happen to this bill. Starting from the left extreme, to the status quo.

    1. Universal Health Care

    This is Obama's home run folks. Also, the worst of the worst from a conservative standpoint. The government hires, pays, and fires doctors and all medical professionals, to the exclusion of any private investment or competing businesses.

    2. National Health Insurance

    Probably the very most the democrat leadership can accomplish realistically. With or without the republicans. Even then it would be watered-down with politi-speak that would favor health insurance companies(or, at least just the big-corrupt companies).

    3. General Health Reform

    No more than your general bill that passes through congress to do...something...In the end, nothing to worry about, just your average waste of money.

    4. Dies

    Waterloo. No further explanation needed.
    What I want in a Health Care Bill,,,You pay your own Bills. You EARN the money spent to heal yourself. That about covers it.

  6. #26
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    You must be strongly against ACORN, I would hope. Oh, and btw, this country exists because of one big riot, and slavery has ended because of another "riot". Civil rights were giving to women and African Americans because of protests. To say protesting will get this country nowhere is...well...not exactly taking into account the past.
    Oh, come on. The American revolution, an end to slavery, female suffrage...

    All of the mentioned 'riots' had merit and virtues upheld. Have you watched the news recently? Anti-reform groups are advocating sending more dissidents merely to be louder than the proponents, and just to kill any sense of progression. These healthcare riots have no value, and no withstanding merit. They exist merely in a partisan fashion to destroy any sense of civility with the manner, and to ignore the facts about healthcare.

    Why is it that when conservatives protest, they are labeled as evil angry mobs, yet when anyone else protests they are simply exercising free speech?
    And I never labeled these riots evil in any way, just ridiculous. If the protesters were serious, maybe they would come up with some sort of factual details that could be presented instead of screeching hackneyed obscenities at the top their lungs.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  7. #27
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    All of the mentioned 'riots' had merit and virtues upheld. Have you watched the news recently? Anti-reform groups are advocating sending more dissidents merely to be louder than the proponents, and just to kill any sense of progression. These healthcare riots have no value, and no withstanding merit. They exist merely in a partisan fashion to destroy any sense of civility with the manner, and to ignore the facts about healthcare.
    The protesters believe that by stopping government run healthcare they are upholding values they see as important to them. They see passing government run healthcare as a step backwards, not progression. You have a double-standard if you say they have no value. You disagree with them, but they definitely have value.

    And I never labeled these riots evil in any way, just ridiculous. If the protesters were serious, maybe they would come up with some sort of factual details that could be presented instead of screeching hackneyed obscenities at the top their lungs.
    They have. They aren't just shouting obscenities. Here are some examples of very valid points made against healthcare:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGQ0EvzcjA"]YouTube - O'Reilly Calls Democrats Hypocrites Re: Town Hall Protests[/ame]
    There are plenty of people with valid concerns. Yes there are people who do nothing but shout insults, but to say that the protests are just fake and meaningless is simply not true.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-07-09 at 07:35 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady
    who is "they"? it seems to me at least obama is willing to take this on, depsite the blue dog dems and the republicans. if people were HONEST, most would acknowledge we need reform, as you did. instead, what we have is more fear mongering and outright lies (euthanasia?) being thrown around.

    we will never get anywhere unless we actually start the car.
    We need reform, but the reform we need starts at a much more fundamental level than what Obama is trying to do. He's just trying to wallpaper over the problems, not solve them.

    The problems in the medical field are twofold:

    1) First, America is sue-happy. We've raised a generation of lawyers who will sue anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat and they all know that the medical profession is ripe for picking. Most doctors just don't have the time to sit in a courtroom answering ridiculous claims from an idiot lawyer and therefore just let their malpractice insurance take care of it. That's exactly what the lawyers are counting on, they make money without ever having to prove they have a case. That's why you get ambulance-chasing lawyers like James Sokolove on TV advertising for massive class-action suits.

    I have a friend who is a doctor and he pays over $100k a year in malpractice insurance premiums! And he's never had a problem in his life. Yet. That cost has to be passed on to the consumers and multiply that by the number of doctors and nurses out there and you've got billions of dollars a year in extraneous costs that have nothing whatsoever to do with healing anyone.

    2) Secondly, the insurance companies and the government don't pay their bills. Billing Medical and Medicaid is a nightmare, they just don't send you back what they've been billed for. Most insurance and government entities pay about 10% of what they're billed. If a procedure costs $200, the hospital will get sent $20. Hospitals realized that in order to actually recoup their losses, they have to raise their rates. That means that to get their $200 reimbursed, they have to charge $2000 for the procedure. That's great, they get their $200 back, but if an uninsured person walks in the door, the law demands that they charge them $2000 too.

    Why you think that Obama's big health reform plan is going to change the situation any is beyond me. They're still going to pay a pittance for services that cost more than the hospitals are getting and hospitals are going to go out of business, just like they are today.

    If he wants to make a difference, he needs to address the core issues of why medical costs are so high to begin with, but he doesn't have the guts to touch it, any more than the Republicans would. It's a political hot potato, the insurance industry has tons of money to spend on buying votes and bribing politicians, nobody is going to vote against their own political sugar daddies.
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  9. #29
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    fyi Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    First, Where is the poll?

    Second, of the four choices listed, the answer is very easy -- Number 4 -- NO government involvement.


    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i'm optimistic.
    I'm not. This boondoggle should scare the hell out of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Government health care is more efficient (Lie), Government health care is cheaper (half truth), Health care is a right (half truth), there are others but that is a start.
    You are partly right:

    "Government health care is more efficient (Lie)." Correct.

    "Health care is a right (half truth)." Wrong. The correct answer is "Lie."

    "Government health care is cheaper (Half truth). Wrong. The correct answer is "Lie."


    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i believe access to decent healthcare is a right, whatever your economic status....
    Forcing others to provide something is NOT a right. A right is being allowed to do things for yourself without government meddling.

  10. #30
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    Re: What do you want in the Health Reform bill

    Moderator's Warning:
    What do you want in the Health Reform bill Poll added
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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