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Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

Should protesters be allowed to curb free speech in this country?

  • Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution.

    Votes: 20 55.6%
  • No. If protesters stop free speech, they should be removed by police.

    Votes: 14 38.9%
  • If fake protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.

    Votes: 6 16.7%

  • Total voters
    36
Any of these laws are deliberately written to provide police with wide latitude, so to make any blanket statement as to whether or not YOU feel a crime was committed matters little. What matters is the decision of the police on the scene.
And from what I've seen, nobody was arrested, so the law wasn't broken, according to your definition.
(again, from the tapes I've seen, I think arrest would have been in order. Let the courts sort it all out.
Hold on. You just told me my opinion doesn't matter because the decision of the police on the scene is what matters. Then you tell me your opinion and say they should have been arrested? That is hypocritical. And by the way, #3 on that list you gave applies only to residential areas.

1. Make, continue, maintain or cause to be made or continued any excessive, unnecessary, unreasonable or unusually loud noise or any noise in such manner as to annoy, offend, disturb, injure or endanger the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of any reasonable person of normal auditory sensitivity residing in the area.
Give me a video of protesters doing this at recent town hall meetings.

Answer my question about the CNN reporter. Do you think she was stopping free speech and disturbing the peace?

And according to the broad definition you are using, virtually all protests are disturbing the peace. Protests almost always involve yelling and shouting. That is how people protest. You keep ignoring everything I say and only read what you want to read. It is quite annoying and doesn't make your argument any stronger.
 
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So why are all your state's reps & both Senators gladly taking their "Socialized Medicine?" (they just don't want the rest of us to get it)
I don't agree with that, trust me, they make enough money to cover themselves. That's another issue, they voted against an amendment to switch themselves to the UHC they are proposing and are keeping their own Cadillac plans, that should be a red flag to everyone.
 
And from what I've seen, nobody was arrested, so the law wasn't broken, according to your definition.
No it means that the local police, knowing this was a national story & being video-taped wimped out & were afraid to do their duty.;)

Hold on. You just told me my opinion doesn't matter because the decision of the police on the scene is what matters. Then you tell me your opinion and say they should have been arrested?

Quite right......YOUR opinion doesn't matter....but Mine does!!:duel:lol::lol::lol:


Give me a video of protesters doing this at recent town hall meetings.

Answer my question about the CNN reporter. Do you think she was stopping free speech and disturbing the peace?
Those videos are all over the net & I don't know which CNN repoirter you are referring to. (I would be very hesitant to arrest ANY reporter unless their actions were flagrant)

And according to the broad definition you are using, virtually all protests are disturbing the peace. Protests almost always involve yelling and shouting. That is how people protest. You keep ignoring everything I say and only read what you want to read. It is quite annoying and doesn't make your argument any stronger.
I'm not ignoring anything you say. If you read the law, disturbing the peace is a charge where the protesters actions should meet certain criteria. Not all protests are disturbing the peace by any means.
 
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my take as an agent is that ......

I knew you were a stand up guy & appreciate your honesty in divulging that you are an insurance agent, & therefore have "A Dog In The Race'"
While I applaud your honesty (you didn't have to admit that) it does perhaps explain your views in this subject. (if I worked for an insurance company I would probably want to protect my livelihood & employer too)

I'm not saying your views should be discounted......just that your work MAY unduly influence your views on this subject.:)
 
No it means that the local police, knowing this was a national story & being video-taped wimped out & were afraid to do their duty.
Or...it means nobody was breaking the law. You have absolutely no evidence for the claim you just made.
Quite right......YOUR opinion doesn't matter....but Mine does!!
You make a joke out of your own hypocrisy...but the hypocrisy is still there.
Those videos are all over the net & I don't know which CNN repoirter you are referring to. (I would be very hesitant to arrest ANY reporter unless their actions were flagrant)
Then you should have no problem linking me to one that you see as breaking the law. What do you mean which CNN reporter? I even gave you a video of what I am talking about. Do you think reporters are higher above the law than protesters if they are doing the same thing? What on earth are you saying, that because a reporter is a reporter he or she can "disturb the peace" but a protester cannot? Once again you blatantly display the double-standard.
I'm not ignoring anything you say. If you read the law, disturbing the peace is a charge where the protesters actions should meet certain criteria. Not all protests are disturbing the peace by any means.
Really? Strange, you seem to have no idea what reporter I was talking about even though I gave a video link and mentioned it in several posts. But maybe you just "missed" it. (although how you can miss a large video box is beyond me.)

Once again, nearly all protests seem to fit under the criteria you are talking about. These recent healthcare protests did not disturb the peace anymore than the average protest. Give me an example of a protest you support.
 
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I knew you were a stand up guy & appreciate your honesty in divulging that you are an insurance agent, & therefore have "A Dog In The Race'"
While I applaud your honesty (you didn't have to admit that) it does perhaps explain your views in this subject. (if I worked for an insurance company I would probably want to protect my livelihood & employer too)

I'm not saying your views should be discounted......just that your work MAY unduly influence your views on this subject.:)
Well, to be fair I am not currently selling any health products, the commissions aren't good for the regulations right now, I'm focusing more on selling life and annuity products at this time, but I do care about our health industry regardless, you can take my experiences and industry info for what it's worth, but I wanted to throw out the other side from our view.
 
Or...it means nobody was breaking the law. You have absolutely no evidence for the claim you just made.
This topic is not about facts ..but opinions. I never claimed evidence on any particular event. (Please reread the Mod warning in this thread on keeping things non-specific) on page 17;
Moderator's Warning:
Going to say this once, to both sides.

This thread is not talking about any specific event. Its the only reason its here, rather than conspiracy theories. If the continued attempts to either steer it towards a singular event, by either side, then action will be taken with the poster, the thread, or both.



You make a joke out of your own hypocrisy...but the hypocrisy is still there.

Look pal....If you aren't mature enough to take a little humor in a good natured way, then pehaps you should go watch American Idols or something.

Then you should have no problem linking me to one that you see as breaking the law. What do you mean which CNN reporter? I even gave you a video of what I am talking about. Are you completely ignoring my posts?
I must have missed your link. Either post it again or go watch TV. Since you seems determined to take this thread back to a 4th grade food fight, I'll consider a reply to any future trolling post of yours.

Edit: Rethinking things, I will not give my impressions on any specific protest, as Off Topic trolling



Once again, nearly all protests seem to fit under the criteria you are talking about. These recent healthcare protests did not disturb the peace anymore than the average protest.

If you continue to troll & try to get me off topic onto specific events, this conversation is over.
 
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Well, to be fair I am not currently selling any health products, the commissions aren't good for the regulations right now, I'm focusing more on selling life and annuity products at this time, but I do care about our health industry regardless, you can take my experiences and industry info for what it's worth, but I wanted to throw out the other side from our view.

Fair & honest reply!:applaud
 
Fair & honest reply!:applaud
It's about my principles really, not that disagreeing is necessarily bad. I put the country first, for instance, one of the sales techniques we use, and this is perfectly ethical, is the concept of minimizing "estate shrinkage" basically we sell a whole life policy to buffer against estate tax loss since the benefit is tax free, the fifo concept(first in first out), if the estate tax went away the concept would immediately become obsolete, which is why certain life agents are pro-estate tax, they don't want to have to develop a new pitch, that is not the way to improve as an agent, and worse, people are getting soaked in taxes partially because these guys want to lobby for easy sales hits. I am against the estate tax because everything along the line was already taxed, so therefore it is unfair to tax again, it doesn't benefit me to believe this, but the same with healthcare, it is about what I feel is right. Again, if there is middleground here, cause I think most voters just want a better system, I am willing to discuss honestly.
 
It's about my principles really, not that disagreeing is necessarily bad. I put the country first, for instance, one of the sales techniques we use, and this is perfectly ethical, is the concept of minimizing "estate shrinkage" basically we sell a whole life policy to buffer against estate tax loss since the benefit is tax free, the fifo concept(first in first out), if the estate tax went away the concept would immediately become obsolete, which is why certain life agents are pro-estate tax, they don't want to have to develop a new pitch, that is not the way to improve as an agent, and worse, people are getting soaked in taxes partially because these guys want to lobby for easy sales hits. I am against the estate tax because everything along the line was already taxed, so therefore it is unfair to tax again, it doesn't benefit me to believe this, but the same with healthcare, it is about what I feel is right. Again, if there is middleground here, cause I think most voters just want a better system, I am willing to discuss honestly.

This type of discussion deserves it's own thread & is exactly what this country needs right now. Honest, non-hysterical interplay so that we can hopefully thrash out a good compromise HC plan that will be good for most citizens & takes into account the best ideas on both sides.
Screaming at town hall meetings is exactly what we don't need anymore of!

(we should contact President Obama....I'll bet you & I could find good middle ground & stop all the hysteria!):usflag2:
 
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This topic is not about facts
You got that right. And only a fool forms an opinion without grounding it in facts.
Look pal....If you aren't mature enough to take a little humor in a good natured way, then pehaps you should go watch American Idols or something.
Yes, that response right there was definitely mature...I pointed out your hypocrisy and you tried to brush it off as a joke...so I simply pointed out that it is still there.
I must have missed your link. Either post it again or go watch TV. Since you seems determined to take this thread back to a 4th grade food fight, I'll consider a reply to any future trolling post of yours.
4th grade food fight. Really? By asking you to answer a question of mine I am somehow starting a food fight? Please. The only one acting immature right now is you. I am simply trying to have an honest debate.
If you continue to troll & try to get me off topic onto specific events, this conversation is over.
Then next time don't include a specific event in your original post.
 
You got that right. And only a fool forms an opinion without grounding it in facts.

Yes, that response right there was definitely mature...I pointed out your hypocrisy and you tried to brush it off as a joke...so I simply pointed out that it is still there.

4th grade food fight. Really? By asking you to answer a question of mine I am somehow starting a food fight? Please. The only one acting immature right now is you. I am simply trying to have an honest debate.

Then next time don't include a specific event in your original post.

This conversation is over.
 
This type of discussion deserves it's own thread & is exactly what this country needs right now. Honest, non-hysterical interplay so that we can hopefully thrash out a good compromise HC plan that will be good for most citizens & takes into account the best ideas on both sides.
Screaming at town hall meetings is exactly what we don't need anymore of!

(we should contact President Obama....I'll bet you & I could find good middle ground & stop all the hysteria!):usflag2:
This of course denotes that Washington is ready to listen. But I agree.
 
This of course denotes that Washington is ready to listen. But I agree.

I think Washington is "All Ears" (no pun intended...Sorry Mr. President!) on this subject.
Obama's Presidency & the jobs of many elected officials rest on getting a compromise bill passed, probably by the end of this year.
 
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This conversation is over.
It was over the moment you refused to provide a factual basis for anything you said. Have a nice day :2wave:
 
I think Washington is "All Ears" (no pun intended...Sorry Mr. President!) on this subject.
Obama's Presidency & the jobs of many elected officials rest on getting a compromise bill passed, probably by the end of this year.
I don't see it myself, but oh well, if you want to have further debates go ahead and PM me when you start them.
 
I don't see it myself, but oh well, if you want to have further debates go ahead and PM me when you start them.

Be glad to but I already have 2 threads going on the HC subject & don't want to push my luck!:lol:
 
I have seen far too much shouting down, disrespect, etc, occur at discussions and public meetings...
People do need to learn how to speak, and how to properly conduct themselves..
If they cannot or will not do this , then some good sealing tape across the mouth and a straight jacket are in order.
Both political parties do this and should be ashamed of themselves.

Frustrated, angry people are not noted for maintaining low tones. Entrenched Politicians and Politcal Hacks are not noted for listening and do not give the time for opponents or the Common People to give their point of view. I suggest that if the Politicians and the Hacks cannot address the public with respect and allow them their say, then they should have to wear those special gloves that pickpocketers have to as a reminder not to spend what is not theirs and inhale the contents of a Helium once every hour as a sign of the content of devotion to represent their constituenies and and their dedication of the General Welfare of the People.



I suspect that "Libertarians" would like to see health care regressed to that of 200 years ago, when the rich could have a doctor close at hand and the poor would just die...
I say its about time we joined the rest of the civilized world and had health care for all, as a right, but limited, of course..

I would like to see the status of health care advance to the 21st Century. All forms of government health care barely reach what would be offered in the 1950s at least in format. The government is the biggest factor in health care today in the multiple ways it interferes with with the market to limiting the options of Insurance Provision (only Cadillac Plans Allowed), failure to prohibit abuse of the Courts (Tort Reform denied), and relegating entire segments of the population to Government Mismanaged Healthcare including Veteran's, Medicare, and Indian Tribal. I do not want government Mismanaged Health Care. I want the best that i could afford and if i cannot afford i would then seek help from relatives, friends, and the general public.

BTW 200 years ago the "poor" had better care than you imagine. Back then 1809 doctors were barely a profession the poor who could go to a doctor probably went to a young one who had more recent knowledge than the older doctors that the rich had. And even if they did not have one hand still had access to the "wise women" which did have knowlegee of herbs that in some cases were real medicines and not just something to cover symptoms. And if a doctor is still needed there is pass the hat. People take care of People.
 
I don't care who wrote the laws...Congress, your state or you city.......No one has a right to disturb the peace. Any thug should goto jail for that CRIME.
That's not even remotely the same as ...

**** it. Never mind. You will never understand the concept.
 
I don't care who wrote the laws...Congress, your state or you city.......No one has a right to disturb the peace. Any thug should goto jail for that CRIME.




So the union thugs in my video should go to jail?


yes or no?


Ignoring this post will to me be evidence of hypocrisy. :2wave:
 
Well, after reading through all 29.5 pages of this thread (Damn that was a long read), I have my opinions to voice.

Firstly, I voted on the poll without thinking about it enough, and chose option 1 and 3.

I should have only chosen option 1, "Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution."

While I personally dislike hearing anyone yell/shout/insult other persons, that is why there is a specific amendment to the US constitution protecting it.

You don't seriously think we would need an amendment to the constitution, that which all other laws must conform to, to protect popular speech?

Further, even if there are groups out there (I'm sure there were, are, and will be.) who pay people to put on fake protests, such is also protected, IMO.

Now, on to the OP argument:

As I see it, the argument put forth in the OP was, essentially, thus:

“Some types of that which is currently considered free speech disrupts/blocks/prevents the free speech of others. Thus, I propose that a law be created to prevent such.”

First Amendment to the United States Constitution said:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

“Congress shall make no law respecting…the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

From reading the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution"]Wikipedia article[/ame] on the 1st Amendment, I gathered further info, which I was not fully aware of before. All should read it, obviously "with a grain of salt".

That said, I do not see any way that the law the OP suggests could possibly stand up in court as constitutional.
 
So the union thugs in my video should go to jail?


yes or no?


Ignoring this post will to me be evidence of hypocrisy. :2wave:

Tell you what Rev....Not only will I ignore this trolling post but will add you as only the 2nd person I ever added to my permanent IGNORE list.

Congrats!!!! & have a nice life:2wave:
 
Tell you what Rev....Not only will I ignore this trolling post but will add you as only the 2nd person I ever added to my permanent IGNORE list.

Congrats!!!! & have a nice life:2wave:

I dunno...

I personally never put someone on my ignore list (I have one?).

IMO, if you ignore someone, you are just avoiding the questions your response to their presense/actions poses to you.

But that's just me.
 
“Congress shall make no law respecting…the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

You guys just evidently can'r read the word PEACEABLY so I have made it stand out for you. (My last response on this overused & failed argument)
 
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