View Poll Results: Should protesters be allowed to curb free speech in this country?

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  • Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution.

    36 63.16%
  • No. If protesters stop free speech, they should be removed by police.

    20 35.09%
  • If fake protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.

    12 21.05%
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Thread: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

  1. #271
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, we lead the civilized world by trimming off those parts that make medicine expensive, we let it work as a service, like it should, and we bring down costs naturally the right way so that people could pay out of pocket without incurring financial ruin, that is the best way, not giving the government complete control and in fact taking back the controls it should not have.
    It may be a bit off topic but wouldn't it be smarter to take HC out of the "for profit" arena all together?
    We don't require our armed force to turn a profit....
    We don't have local fire departments put out fires for profit....
    We don't arrest criminals for profit...


    I say any system that rewards insurance companies (with higher profits) who provide less coverage to sick people is doomed to failure anyway
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #272
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Wrong.no one has a right to commit the crime of disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct...Those are crimes.
    Correct. But you have a faulty understanding of what "disturbing the peace" is. Having a heated debate is not disturbing the peace.
    People are arrested every day for those crimes if they are deemed to be disturbing the peace. (Last time on this point....I'm not asking you to agree with me, it's a free country)
    So then the reporter in the CNN video I showed you should have been arrested, correct? After all, she was yelling and preventing free speech. She was disturbing the peace of the crowd, was she not?

    The decision for arrest is a totally subjective thing, up to the police officers on the scene. You cannot possibly make a blanket statement saying the peace was not disturbed in the eyes of the police. I've watched some tapes & I would arrest some of thuse protesters in a heartbeat.
    If that is the case then you can't make the claim that the protesters at the town hall meetings were "disturbing the peace" because they weren't arrested.


    Are not all protests "disturbing the peace" according to your definition?

  3. #273
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    It may be a bit off topic but wouldn't it be smarter to take HC out of the "for profit" arena all together?
    We don't require our armed force to turn a profit....
    We don't have local fire departments put out fires for profit....
    We don't arrest criminals for profit...
    No, I think government HC is a horrid idea, the best fix would be to make real change that brings the prices down such as tort reform and taking the medical school enrollment caps off to allow for more doctors to join the market, that would signifigantly reduce prices and I would bet that the average person could afford about 65% of their health care out of pocket within ten years, then catastrophic coverage from insurance companies could cover the worst case scenario and it's price would also drop because an adjusted risk/payout pool would favor lower premiums, as well, you would probably see a relaxation of underwriting criteria(pre-existing conditions) as things became more affordable.

    I say any system that rewards insurance companies who provide less coverage with higher profits is doomed to failure anyway
    my take as an agent is that the companies aren't exactly being rewarded, it does look that way because certain opponents use a somewhat dishonest tactic of reporting profit as a dollar figure when they should be reporting profit margins, those don't look favorable when you compare insurance to other industries.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 08-07-09 at 05:16 PM.
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Correct. But you have a faulty understanding of what "disturbing the peace" is. Having a heated debate is not disturbing the peace.
    OK..Let's look at the law: (my emphasis added)

    Disturbing the Peace Law & Legal Definition
    Disturbing the Peace Law & Legal Definition

    Disturbing the peace is a minor criminal offense that may be charged when someone makes excessive noise, especially in a residential area, such as by operation of any tool, equipment, vehicle, electronic device, set, instrument, television, phonograph, machine or other noise- or sound-producing device. Local laws vary, so they should be consulted for specific requirements in your area.

    In some cases, an activity may only disturb a particular individiual, and the remedy would be a private nuisance claim in which injunctive relief and/or damages may be recovered.

    The following is an example of a state statute dealing with disturbing the peace:

    "Elements of Disturbing the Peace: It shall be unlawful for any person to:

    1. Make, continue, maintain or cause to be made or continued any excessive, unnecessary, unreasonable or unusually loud noise or any noise in such manner as to annoy, offend, disturb, injure or endanger the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of any reasonable person of normal auditory sensitivity residing in the area.
    2. Use, operate or permit the use or operation of any electronic device, radio receiving set, television, musical instrument, phonograph or other machine or device for the producing or reproducing of sound in such manner as to disturb the peace, quiet and comfort of any reasonable person of normal auditory sensitivity inhabiting the area.
    3. Congregate because of, participate in or be in any party or gathering of people from which sound emanates of a sufficient volume so as to disturb the peace, quiet or repose of any reasonable person of normal auditory sensitivity residing in any residential area. No person shall visit or remain within any residential dwelling unit wherein such party or gathering is taking place except persons who have gone there for the sole purpose of abating said disturbance. A police officer may order all persons present in any group or gathering from the dwelling unit to immediately disperse in lieu of being charged under this Section."


    Any of these laws are deliberately written to provide police with wide latitude, so to make any blanket statement as to whether or not YOU feel a crime was committed matters little. What matters is the decision of the police on the scene.
    (again, from the tapes I've seen, I think arrest would have been in order. Let the courts sort it all out.
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, I think government HC is a horrid idea,
    So why are all your state's reps & both Senators gladly taking their "Socialized Medicine?" (they just don't want the rest of us to get it)

  6. #276
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Any of these laws are deliberately written to provide police with wide latitude, so to make any blanket statement as to whether or not YOU feel a crime was committed matters little. What matters is the decision of the police on the scene.
    And from what I've seen, nobody was arrested, so the law wasn't broken, according to your definition.
    (again, from the tapes I've seen, I think arrest would have been in order. Let the courts sort it all out.
    Hold on. You just told me my opinion doesn't matter because the decision of the police on the scene is what matters. Then you tell me your opinion and say they should have been arrested? That is hypocritical. And by the way, #3 on that list you gave applies only to residential areas.

    1. Make, continue, maintain or cause to be made or continued any excessive, unnecessary, unreasonable or unusually loud noise or any noise in such manner as to annoy, offend, disturb, injure or endanger the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of any reasonable person of normal auditory sensitivity residing in the area.
    Give me a video of protesters doing this at recent town hall meetings.

    Answer my question about the CNN reporter. Do you think she was stopping free speech and disturbing the peace?

    And according to the broad definition you are using, virtually all protests are disturbing the peace. Protests almost always involve yelling and shouting. That is how people protest. You keep ignoring everything I say and only read what you want to read. It is quite annoying and doesn't make your argument any stronger.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-07-09 at 05:35 PM.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So why are all your state's reps & both Senators gladly taking their "Socialized Medicine?" (they just don't want the rest of us to get it)
    I don't agree with that, trust me, they make enough money to cover themselves. That's another issue, they voted against an amendment to switch themselves to the UHC they are proposing and are keeping their own Cadillac plans, that should be a red flag to everyone.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    And from what I've seen, nobody was arrested, so the law wasn't broken, according to your definition.
    No it means that the local police, knowing this was a national story & being video-taped wimped out & were afraid to do their duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Hold on. You just told me my opinion doesn't matter because the decision of the police on the scene is what matters. Then you tell me your opinion and say they should have been arrested?
    Quite right......YOUR opinion doesn't matter....but Mine does!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Give me a video of protesters doing this at recent town hall meetings.

    Answer my question about the CNN reporter. Do you think she was stopping free speech and disturbing the peace?
    Those videos are all over the net & I don't know which CNN repoirter you are referring to. (I would be very hesitant to arrest ANY reporter unless their actions were flagrant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    And according to the broad definition you are using, virtually all protests are disturbing the peace. Protests almost always involve yelling and shouting. That is how people protest. You keep ignoring everything I say and only read what you want to read. It is quite annoying and doesn't make your argument any stronger.
    I'm not ignoring anything you say. If you read the law, disturbing the peace is a charge where the protesters actions should meet certain criteria. Not all protests are disturbing the peace by any means.
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-07-09 at 06:38 PM.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post

    my take as an agent is that ......
    I knew you were a stand up guy & appreciate your honesty in divulging that you are an insurance agent, & therefore have "A Dog In The Race'"
    While I applaud your honesty (you didn't have to admit that) it does perhaps explain your views in this subject. (if I worked for an insurance company I would probably want to protect my livelihood & employer too)

    I'm not saying your views should be discounted......just that your work MAY unduly influence your views on this subject.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    No it means that the local police, knowing this was a national story & being video-taped wimped out & were afraid to do their duty.
    Or...it means nobody was breaking the law. You have absolutely no evidence for the claim you just made.
    Quite right......YOUR opinion doesn't matter....but Mine does!!
    You make a joke out of your own hypocrisy...but the hypocrisy is still there.
    Those videos are all over the net & I don't know which CNN repoirter you are referring to. (I would be very hesitant to arrest ANY reporter unless their actions were flagrant)
    Then you should have no problem linking me to one that you see as breaking the law. What do you mean which CNN reporter? I even gave you a video of what I am talking about. Do you think reporters are higher above the law than protesters if they are doing the same thing? What on earth are you saying, that because a reporter is a reporter he or she can "disturb the peace" but a protester cannot? Once again you blatantly display the double-standard.
    I'm not ignoring anything you say. If you read the law, disturbing the peace is a charge where the protesters actions should meet certain criteria. Not all protests are disturbing the peace by any means.
    Really? Strange, you seem to have no idea what reporter I was talking about even though I gave a video link and mentioned it in several posts. But maybe you just "missed" it. (although how you can miss a large video box is beyond me.)

    Once again, nearly all protests seem to fit under the criteria you are talking about. These recent healthcare protests did not disturb the peace anymore than the average protest. Give me an example of a protest you support.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-07-09 at 06:50 PM.

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