View Poll Results: Should protesters be allowed to curb free speech in this country?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution.

    36 63.16%
  • No. If protesters stop free speech, they should be removed by police.

    20 35.09%
  • If fake protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.

    12 21.05%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    So, if it can be proven that the intent of a protest is not to make their views known, bujt specifically to prevent the words of the other side from being heard, should that be illegal?
    No. If at can be proven that the protesters are doing nothing more than disrupting the public peace, then those protesters can be removed.
    So Republicans can not debate, or present ideas any more. All they can do is seek to suppress.
    Oh please. I can offer just as many examples of protesters with valid concerns.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGQ0EvzcjA"]YouTube - O'Reilly Calls Democrats Hypocrites Re: Town Hall Protests[/ame]
    Now we all can see these town hall meetings were very heated and loud. But they aren't illegal, and they aren't much different from any other protests.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-06-09 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #212
    Educator sam_w's Avatar
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    No. If at can be proven that the protesters are doing nothing more than disrupting the public peace, then those protesters can be removed.
    Agreed, as there is a very clear definition between opposition, and disruption. Opposition is what the Constitution guarantees us, it give us the right to free speech and ideas, to attend a town hall and tell your Congress members that you are opposed to his or her policies.

    Is anyone disputing that here? Not me, and not anyone I have see to date. What is in protest is when groups like Americans for Prosperity and other lobbying firms are organizing people to not simply attend a town hall for their Congress member to voice their free opinions, but rather to attend for the sole purpose of disrupting so that no other citizens may partake in the town hall. THAT is what we are opposed to. It really is that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Oh please. I can offer just as many examples of protesters with valid concerns.
    YouTube - O'Reilly Calls Democrats Hypocrites Re: Town Hall Protests
    Now we all can see these town hall meetings were very heated and loud. But they aren't illegal, and they aren't much different from any other protests.
    Sure there may be people with honest and valid concerns, but they are down being discredited by the actions of a few who are not attending to voice opinions, but rather to suppress opinions because that is their tactic. If people want to stand outside holding signs, that is their right. But it is infringing on other citizens rights to meet with their congress member when they are shouting out so loud as to drown out any discussion, when they are banging on windows so that nobody can discuss. That is suppression, and that is what some on the right see now as their tactic of choice.

    If some on the left now attend a town hall and do the same, then it is no different. The same rules apply. But we are dealing right here, right now with a dishonest campaign by those on the right to disrupt discourse in this country. That is un-American in my book. It goes against the idealogy of a democracy and flow of free ideas and expression.

  3. #213
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    & I stand behind my idea that new federal laws need to be enacted that will punish those who deliberately travel around the country for the purpose of infringing on other citizen's First Amendment rights. (If they are part of a larger conspiracy & do this for money, all the harsher the sentence they should receive)
    So you decided that people who "disrupt the peace" should be sent to Federal Prison under the standard that if someone speaks loudly and with passion at a public event they are culpable and if they attend the event because someone told them about the event they will get extra time. I understand your point.

  4. #214
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So you deny conservatives have been writing memo's encouraging their readers to disrupt town hall meetings?
    OK, Conservatives cannot speak their own point of view. They cannot encourage others to attend events that are open to the general public. And I assume they cannot attend events open to the general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    You deny that many of the chants of these "Protesters" are canned & taken right out of the RNC talking points?
    OK, Conservative are not allowed to have or use Slogans or Chants and it should be forbidden that any Conservative Organization even try to make one or even to give info to Concervatives about anything of political or social importance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    You deny that many of these "legitimate" protesters admit that they don't live anywhere near the town that is holding this local meeting?
    I see if the issue is a national one, and if successfully passed would invasively
    effect the lives and well being of Conservitaves they should only attend their own local events (which they should not) and which may not exist or if it does does not have a member of the House/Senate on the appropriate Committee or has some government drone bureaucrat which is only there to law down what is going to occur. The decision makers are too important to deal with such people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Anyway, we're getting off topic which is should these protests be allowed if they are shouting down their neighber's free speech & they are proven to be paid operatives of either the HC industry or the RNC, or both.
    OK, Conservatives cannot speak loudly and since they are speaking they must be paid since they would not say what they are saying if they were not. Do you even understand what you are saying?

  5. #215
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Right or wrong? Left or right? Hello? Oh wait...here it is:


    You know this tactic of yours is annoying, well that is the kindest way I can put it I guess. Annoying. Dishonest, I can use that one as well. Disingenuous? Yep, that would work perfectly also.

    For someone who first claimed red herring, I am amazed I can still move around what with all the bleeping red herrings you have been throwing. So fine, we have established clearly what is going on. You want to make claims that the left is disrupting town hall meetings now, please do post evidence or stop lying.

    p.s. If you are so consistent in your outrage over government spending, why do you seem to care so little about the fact that under two administrations the national debt has ballooned faster than anyone?
    Historical Debt Outstanding Annual
    Ronald Reagan went from $997B (09/30/1981) to $2,857B (09/29/1989)=$2.8 8 years
    George H. Bush $2,857B (09/29/1989) to $4,411 (09/30/1993)=$1.5t 4 years
    Clinton went from $4,411 (09/30/1993) to $5,807 (09/30/2001)= $1.4t 8 years
    George W. Bush $5,807 (09/30/2001) to $10,024 (09/30/2008) $4.2t in 8 years

    Not done with George W. Bush though. We still have to add up Medicare's 2003 bill, that is another $1.2 trillion - Medicare Drug Benefit May Cost $1.2 Trillion
    Can we ever forget Iraq? That gift to debt will end up between $3-5 trillion more -The Iraq War Will Cost Us $3 Trillion, and Much More

    So, with George W. Bush, we have a President who inherited budget surplus, took into the red almost immediately (no it was not 9/11, look at the budget, it was tax cuts that stimulated jack). Added a debt of $4.2 trillion, + $1.2 trillion more from Medicare in the years to come, and $3-5 trillion for Iraq).

    So Obama has inherited a financial meltdown, a budget deficit, and an economy that some thought was on the precipice of a Great Depression. What is the state of the economy today? Well we are now 6 months in emerging from the greatest postwar recession. He has inherited a mess, but if he follows Clinton's path, you should be damn grateful we have a Democrat in office and NOT a Republican wouldn't you say? You are so strongly against government spending, debt and all right? No you are not consistent at all.
    Off Topic we are not arguing which party is the worse spender of borrowed funds we are arguing whether citizens should be sent to prison if they protest loudly or perhaps more accurately wrongly. I personally do not care which party is worse i don't like either one and i believe a new Conservative Party is needed on your point.

  6. #216
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Since I & many others feel that the shouting protest at many health care rallies is being orchestrated, & appears designed to prevent the American voter from hearing the other side of the issue, I ask the above poll question.
    Whether or not our suspicions (including those of press Sec Gibbs at today's briefing C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics) prove to be true, my poll question remains.

    The last option should read: If fake, (operatives proven to be merely "Posing" as concerned citizens while actually being paid money for the purpose of inhibiting free speech) protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.
    Good points. Very thought-provoking.
    If it could be proven tha the protesters were "fake", or were being paid to create a disturbance and inhibit free speech, then they should be prevented from doing so.

    This reminds me of stuff I've heard about the Vietnam war protests, how the government would send in fake protesters to incite violence, then send the cops in swinging on the entire crowd.

  7. #217
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    This reminds me of stuff I've heard about the Vietnam war protests, how the government would send in fake protesters to incite violence, then send the cops in swinging on the entire crowd.
    I've never heard anyone claim the government was doing that, mostly fringe groups on either side of the argument.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #218
    Educator sam_w's Avatar
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I've never heard anyone claim the government was doing that, mostly fringe groups on either side of the argument.
    This is not necessarily been a big secret the past four decades. I would say everyone knows about this, but I guess everyone but you?

  9. #219
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So you deny conservatives have been writing memo's encouraging their readers to disrupt town hall meetings?

    You deny that many of the chants of these "Protesters" are canned & taken right out of the RNC talking points?

    You deny that many of these "legitimate" protesters admit that they don't live anywhere near the town that is holding this local meeting?

    Anyway, we're getting off topic which is should these protests be allowed if they are shouting down their neighber's free speech & they are proven to be paid operatives of either the HC industry or the RNC, or both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    While I disagree with your characterization that any such laws would necessarily be " the option of treason and tyranny".....I agree that any such law would have to be very carefully drafted & applied so as to not inhibit free speech.

    The alternative to such new laws would be to do nothing, which would allow possibly disingenuous operatives, from either side, to stifle all our First Amendment rights through intimidation...... by not allowing free speech that they disagree with to be heard..
    I believe carefully worded laws could protect all of our First Amendment rights while still allowing dissent, but am mindful of the dangers.
    The problem is that you do not understand is that criminal law is more like a hammer than a picking tool. It is a crude implement and its implementation under your proposal would cause great damage to the ideals of our society.

  10. #220
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    This is not necessarily been a big secret the past four decades. I would say everyone knows about this, but I guess everyone but you?
    Right, so again, with no facts, your saying everyone has this grand insight into a conspiracy that the government sent in plants to counter Vietnam protesters. Okay, sure, whatever you say there chief.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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