View Poll Results: Should protesters be allowed to curb free speech in this country?

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  • Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution.

    36 63.16%
  • No. If protesters stop free speech, they should be removed by police.

    20 35.09%
  • If fake protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.

    12 21.05%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    This thread merely asks the question of whether or not such fake protests (from either side of the aisle) fall under Freedom of Speech protections or violate same, IF proven to be faked.
    How is that NOT a legitimate & timely question?

    The issue is you are implying that the protests are some how false, fake, a fraud that they are not serious about the position they take, and that it would be a good thing if these people were arrested since they could not be real. If you want to go there how does one determine that the speech is fake? And you are targeting people who help organize protests as if real protests have no organization at all. I doubt that there has been any protests that were not a riot that had some organization and yes that includes trasportation of some of the protesters. Protest does require organization it is not spontaneous. You are just trying to work around the 1st Amendment. Your proposal mean Civil War.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Since I & many others feel that the shouting protest at many health care rallies is being orchestrated, & appears designed to prevent the American voter from hearing the other side of the issue, I ask the above poll question.
    Whether or not our suspicions (including those of press Sec Gibbs at today's briefing C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics) prove to be true, my poll question remains.

    The last option should read: If fake, (operatives proven to be merely "Posing" as concerned citizens while actually being paid money for the purpose of inhibiting free speech) protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.
    Loaded question.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The issue is you are implying that the protests are some how false, fake, a fraud that they are not serious about the position they take, and that it would be a good thing if these people were arrested since they could not be real. If you want to go there how does one determine that the speech is fake? And you are targeting people who help organize protests as if real protests have no organization at all. I doubt that there has been any protests that were not a riot that had some organization and yes that includes trasportation of some of the protesters. Protest does require organization it is not spontaneous. You are just trying to work around the 1st Amendment. Your proposal mean Civil War.
    No...I'm simply asking a legitimate & timely question as to how far a citzen's first amendment rights extend. There are limits .....& should deliberately inhibiting the free speech of others, as a paid operative, be protected .....or is that a very un-democratic (small "D") act, dangerous to a democracy?

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Before I vote, I would like to get some clarification:

    Are you asking is it legal to protest a protest? -- In other words, be as loud and disruptive as possible at a public protest? Or crash a Townhall with the intent of doing the same?

    It's a free country so everyone has the right to be an asshole if they so choose? Which is why disturbing the peace and public nuisance laws exist. Used properly, they allow police to arrest assholes set on disrupting and irritating others. They should just call those laws 'one count of asshole' or 'mouthing off to cop in the lamest degree'.

    Generally, I think each side should be give a time and place to hold up their signs and get up on their soapbox. If one side decides to crash--disrupt and otherwise irritate and annoy a lawful protest, then call the cops and let them cool off in jail for a few hours. I've known a few people who were cured of their asshole tendencies with a few hours in jail.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Before I vote, I would like to get some clarification:

    Are you asking is it legal to protest a protest? -- In other words, be as loud and disruptive as possible at a public protest? Or crash a Townhall with the intent of doing the same?

    It's a free country so everyone has the right to be an asshole if they so choose? Which is why disturbing the peace and public nuisance laws exist. Used properly, they allow police to arrest assholes set on disrupting and irritating others. They should just call those laws 'one count of asshole' or 'mouthing off to cop in the lamest degree'.

    Generally, I think each side should be give a time and place to hold up their signs and get up on their soapbox. If one side decides to crash--disrupt and otherwise irritate and annoy a lawful protest, then call the cops and let them cool off in jail for a few hours. I've known a few people who were cured of their asshole tendencies with a few hours in jail.
    I agree with your thoughts. Protests should be legal UNLESS they cross the line & deliberately create a public nuisance for the very purpose of drowning out the free speech of those they oppose.
    Then, the police should remove the protesters, even if their wearing Brooks Bros suits.
    (my poll takes that one further step which is that I feel that if a protester is really a paid operative (from any side) creating a loud nuisance for the purpose of stopping free speech, he or she should be prosecuted along with the group/organization that hired him/her.)
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-04-09 at 09:03 PM.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I agree with your thoughts. Protests should be legal UNLESS they cross the line & deliberately create a public nuisance for the very purpose of drowning out the free speech of those they oppose.
    Then, the police should remove the protesters.
    (my poll takes that one further step which is that I feel that if a protester is really a paid operative (from any side) creating a loud nuisance for the purpose of stopping free speech, he or she should be prosecuted along with the group/organization that hired him/her.)
    I agree--though that's a hard thing to prove.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I agree--though that's a hard thing to prove.
    Agreed. Hard but not at all impossible. (you'd be amazed what the power of plea bargaining can result in)
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-04-09 at 09:06 PM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Since I & many others feel that the shouting protest at many health care rallies is being orchestrated, & appears designed to prevent the American voter from hearing the other side of the issue, I ask the above poll question.
    Whether or not our suspicions (including those of press Sec Gibbs at today's briefing C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics) prove to be true, my poll question remains.

    The last option should read: If fake, (operatives proven to be merely "Posing" as concerned citizens while actually being paid money for the purpose of inhibiting free speech) protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.
    Prosecuted for what? Lying about your political opinion isn't illegal

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Prosecuted for what? Lying about your political opinion isn't illegal
    Maybe we need some new laws to protect our First Amendment rights.

    Edit:

    How about this proposed law:

    If it can be proved that you crossed state lines for the purpose of inhibiting the First Amendment rights of others, & were paid for your efforts, you are guilty of violating 18USC231......(a federal felony) etc..etc...etc

    Writing such a law would not be difficult. (Coming up with the political will & guts to do so....would.)
    Last edited by Devil505; 08-04-09 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    No...I'm simply asking a legitimate & timely question as to how far a citzen's first amendment rights extend. There are limits .....& should deliberately inhibiting the free speech of others, as a paid operative, be protected .....or is that a very un-democratic (small "D") act, dangerous to a democracy?

    First, we are a Republic, democracy being the rule of the majority and thus antithetical to Freedom of Speech.

    Second, I do not believe the poll or your post mentions that the fake protesters were paid and ignoring that your post is about free speech not disruptive activities. One cannot yell "fire" in a theater that has no fire. Throwing pies and worse at speakers at Forum is not free speech either. So far the only cases i heard is events sponsored by elected representives or government agency representives both which do not need protection for Unpopular Speech.

    Third, if there are paid operative who disrupt people who are trying to get their point out that person can be arrested for Disorderly Conduct. And can be sued for their actions. I do not think that someone speaking out in a public forum violates the free speech of others.

    Fourth, I do not believe we need to get into prosecuting people who engage in Unpopular Speech under the view that they are not being honest about it.

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