View Poll Results: Should protesters be allowed to curb free speech in this country?

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  • Yes. Protests are protected by the Constitution.

    36 63.16%
  • No. If protesters stop free speech, they should be removed by police.

    20 35.09%
  • If fake protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.

    12 21.05%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post

    I see, another who did not bother to read. Henceforth you have no argument.

    Either read my post fully or admit you have failed. P/N you can admit to yourself throwing in a red herring. It's all there for you, already posted.
    You've already been debunked, concede that you are recycling the white house line that falsely accuses others of loading the town halls, prove it with something real, or dissappear.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #102
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Already posted. I can't help you if you can't bother to read.

    I see, another who did not bother to read. Henceforth you have no argument.

    Either read my post fully or admit you have failed. P/N you can admit to yourself throwing in a red herring. It's all there for you, already posted.
    You mean these links?
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Yeah I suppose to you it wouldn;t matter that some of these people do not even live in the districts now would it?
    Local Fox Reporter Attends Town Hall And Finds ĎSome Attendees Admit They Donít Live In The Districtí
    A link to the hard hitting, journalistic bastion of integrity, Think Progress?

    The MyFoxHouston story the article links to shows no mention of "out of district" people showing up. Could it be that Think Progress is making it up? As far as proof goes - FAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Nor would Rep. Steve Kagen, whose town hall was targeted by the Wisconsin chapter of Americans for Prosperity matter at all.

    Golly jeepers, now you do know who Americans for Prosperity are right?
    Do you really think that liberal groups don't do this already? Who do you think the conservative groups are taking their lead from? Care for me to post links to liberal groups organizing the disruption of protests and rallies? As far as proof goes, this is acceptable, but your faux outrage over one side doing it and completely ignoring the other side doing it further proves your blind partisanship, but we already knew that.

    I'll admit it's not a total red herring on your part, but your blatant ignoring of liberal groups doing the same thing in far greater numbers does discredit your take on this issue.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    You mean these links?
    Yeah, just pick the one link you think you can argue against, ignore the others now. Real good job there buddy. Just ignore :38 in where the reporter says quote:

    Some attendees admit they don't live in the Congressman's district, so why attend the meeting...
    My guess, you either did NOT watch the video, or you boldy lie. So which is it? Which will you take personal responsibility to? You are caught right now, right here...so own up.

    But wait, you never addressed this:
    Anti-Reform Group Takes Credit For Helping Gin Up Town Hall Rallies
    Conservatives for Patientsí Rights, the operation thatís running a national campaign against a public health care option, is now publicly taking credit for helping gin up the sometimes-rowdy outbursts targeting House Dems at town hall meetings around the country, raising questions about their spontaneity.

    CPR is the group headed by controversial former hospitals exec Rick Scott thatís spending millions on ads attacking reform in all sorts of lurid ways, a campaign thatís being handled by the same P.R. mavens behind the Swift Boat Vets.
    Well how bloody convenient for you. I suppose if you did address this, you would also have to address the issue of Bob MacGuffie. Yeah, that would be kind of hard since his leaked memo is available "Rocking the Town Halls: Best Practices"

    The rest of what I posted would take logic and understanding...best left ignored here I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Do you really think that liberal groups don't do this already? Who do you think the conservative groups are taking their lead from? Care for me to post links to liberal groups organizing the disruption of protests and rallies? As far as proof goes, this is acceptable, but your faux outrage over one side doing it and completely ignoring the other side doing it further proves your blind partisanship, but we already knew that.

    I'll admit it's not a total red herring on your part, but your blatant ignoring of liberal groups doing the same thing in far greater numbers does discredit your take on this issue.
    Excuse me, but I am not talking, nor have I talked about Liberal groups doing or not doing what you say...have I? The argument I entered was whether these so called B.S. disruptions were genuine or astroturfing. Are liberals doing the SAME thing? How the hell should I know, to date there has been nothing presented. Do you know of some town halls being disrupted by liberal groups? Do you know of Congressmen being prevented from speaking with their constituencies by liberal groups right now? I mean now, do not post some bit about something that happened 5 years ago with Bush, I could care less as I would not have been involved then.

    Do I seem partisan? Damn straight, but it is not partisanship that gets me going, it is the consistent, and almost only, tactic of dishonesty that conservatives make time and time again. Let me put this way, if the tables were turned, and liberal groups were doing this, and someone presented me with this argument, I would not be so dishonest as to claim it does not exist. I would maybe counter with something more believable or honest, or truth be told...and this is the real secret; I would just not pay any attention to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You've already been debunked, concede that you are recycling the white house line that falsely accuses others of loading the town halls, prove it with something real, or dissappear.
    Maybe you might want to actually bother to read my post, have watched the actual video, heard the presenter's own words, and read the bleeping memo that was leaked, or the article linked. No, the only people that have been debunked are those that have quite disingenuously been caught, like you have now. Care to watch the actual video and try and tell me nobody at all says anything about people that do not even live in that district? I would welcome that counter-argument for a good laugh.

  4. #104
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post

    Maybe you might want to actually bother to read my post, have watched the actual video, heard the presenter's own words, and read the bleeping memo that was leaked, or the article linked. No, the only people that have been debunked are those that have quite disingenuously been caught, like you have now. Care to watch the actual video and try and tell me nobody at all says anything about people that do not even live in that district? I would welcome that counter-argument for a good laugh.
    What's to read, these are the same sources that pass along talking points as fact, and as far as memos go, I never trust "leaked memos" from any source without some concrete validation, if you want to know why it's very simple, one of the oldest tricks in the book is to throw out fake documentation so that the idea becomes ingrained in people's heads that something took place, even after the trick has been dismissed, Dan Rathers forged memo in '04 ring a bell?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    What's to read, these are the same sources that pass along talking points as fact, and as far as memos go, I never trust "leaked memos" from any source without some concrete validation, if you want to know why it's very simple, one of the oldest tricks in the book is to throw out fake documentation so that the idea becomes ingrained in people's heads that something took place, even after the trick has been dismissed, Dan Rathers forged memo in '04 ring a bell?
    Well the only problem you have there is good old Bill did not refute this memo. I am not going to hold your hand on this, you need to be the one to start doing your own homework at this point. I will give you a hint at best to start with. Bob MacGuffie did a radio interview...look that up. One other hint, his interview was with a "liberal" which is suprising because this person is on record as saying he is a centrist. But FOX needed a liberal at the time..oops, did I say too much? Well this should be enough to start you on your journey.

  6. #106
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Yeah, just pick the one link you think you can argue against, ignore the others now. Real good job there buddy. Just ignore :38 in where the reporter says quote:



    My guess, you either did NOT watch the video, or you boldy lie. So which is it? Which will you take personal responsibility to? You are caught right now, right here...so own up.

    But wait, you never addressed this:
    Anti-Reform Group Takes Credit For Helping Gin Up Town Hall Rallies


    Well how bloody convenient for you. I suppose if you did address this, you would also have to address the issue of Bob MacGuffie. Yeah, that would be kind of hard since his leaked memo is available "Rocking the Town Halls: Best Practices"

    The rest of what I posted would take logic and understanding...best left ignored here I guess.



    Excuse me, but I am not talking, nor have I talked about Liberal groups doing or not doing what you say...have I? The argument I entered was whether these so called B.S. disruptions were genuine or astroturfing. Are liberals doing the SAME thing? How the hell should I know, to date there has been nothing presented. Do you know of some town halls being disrupted by liberal groups? Do you know of Congressmen being prevented from speaking with their constituencies by liberal groups right now? I mean now, do not post some bit about something that happened 5 years ago with Bush, I could care less as I would not have been involved then.

    Do I seem partisan? Damn straight, but it is not partisanship that gets me going, it is the consistent, and almost only, tactic of dishonesty that conservatives make time and time again. Let me put this way, if the tables were turned, and liberal groups were doing this, and someone presented me with this argument, I would not be so dishonest as to claim it does not exist. I would maybe counter with something more believable or honest, or truth be told...and this is the real secret; I would just not pay any attention to it.



    Maybe you might want to actually bother to read my post, have watched the actual video, heard the presenter's own words, and read the bleeping memo that was leaked, or the article linked. No, the only people that have been debunked are those that have quite disingenuously been caught, like you have now. Care to watch the actual video and try and tell me nobody at all says anything about people that do not even live in that district? I would welcome that counter-argument for a good laugh.
    So you're basically proving that you only get outraged when the right does it - noted.


  7. #107
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Since I & many others feel that the shouting protest at many health care rallies is being orchestrated, & appears designed to prevent the American voter from hearing the other side of the issue, I ask the above poll question.
    Whether or not our suspicions (including those of press Sec Gibbs at today's briefing C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics) prove to be true, my poll question remains.

    The last option should read: If fake, (operatives proven to be merely "Posing" as concerned citizens while actually being paid money for the purpose of inhibiting free speech) protesters & their masters should be prosecuted.
    As long as politicians lie and misrepresent the truth I have no problem with others do so in order to counter act the original untruths.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Well the only problem you have there is good old Bill did not refute this memo. I am not going to hold your hand on this, you need to be the one to start doing your own homework at this point.
    Okay,
    1) they got people there according to the source, it did not say they were paid to have an opinion, so that is irrelevant.
    2) If unprovable that the opinions expressed were invalid then you have no point.
    3) there was real anger in the audio I heard.
    4) opinion polls are backing up the opinions expressed verbatim at the town halls.
    5) This pathetic attempt to silence people is getting more comedic by people like yourself trying to invalidate it with half-facts and non-analysis. Face it, you lose.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #109
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    There are such a thing as agents provocateurs who are hired by government to make protests turn violent so that they can be shut down. It's no conspiracy, it has happened all over the world, including places like Canada, the U.S., the U.K., etc.

    I think it is more likely that if organizations or government wanted protests shut down that they wouldn't hire a large group, they'd just hire one person who discredits the protest and causes riot police to descend upon the masses.



    Where does this happen? China or Canada?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #110
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    Re: Should Orchestrated (fake) Protests Be Allowed To Hinder Free Speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    So you're basically proving that you only get outraged when the right does it - noted.

    AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGHHHHHHH

    First off, I am not arguing this case. Do you not understand this? I am arguing the case, now proven, that the right wing lobbyist are pushing people to fake outrage..blah blah blah. That is the only point I have entered into this discussion, do you understand?

    Good

    Now, would you like to bring up the red herring again? Because I hope you do appreciate the irony. Do you see the irony? Do you need me to explain it? You have used a red herring, how cute. I am arguing point A, and you bring in point B to distract from point A.

    Now, if you wish to bring up a separate issue of liberals disrupting town halls this week, please do post. But before you do, allow me to say this for the record. I do not accept this tactic to be used PERIOD. This is NOT discussion, but rather a suppression of discussion. Thus, I am against it. So if you do have some evidence of Liberals doing this, then please do post.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter
    1) they got people there according to the source, it did not say they were paid to have an opinion, so that is irrelevant.
    Huh? Hello...have you not bothered to read anything? Did I say the nutjobs showing up are paid? No, I did not make that claim. What I did say however that is right in front of your eyes is that lobbying firms (obviously being paid) are organizing the disruptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter
    2) If unprovable that the opinions expressed were invalid then you have no point.
    Look bud, I have given you everything you need to know. If you will not bother to educate yourself, then just end it ok. You had your opportunity to dispute, was it you who said something about people just accepting an argument because they said so? Well, go learn about the players involved and then come back.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter
    3) there was real anger in the audio I heard.
    What you say? Conservatives angry? That is shocking....when are they not angry about something? Isn't anger a core requirement to become one? Seriously, I am not arguing that some may or may not genuinely be angry. Do read the argument please.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter
    4) opinion polls are backing up the opinions expressed verbatim at the town halls.
    And there are opinion polls that show the opposite. There are opinion polls that show a good portion of the American population need to be put into insane asylums, or at the very least redo grades 1 through 12. There is a Gallup poll that shows Democrats having the strongest lead in states identifying by party, same one that shows Republicans with only a couple of states left solidly red. At this point polls mean nothing, absolutely nothing, and this is NOT part of the discussion is it? Do I hear a red herring again?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter
    5) This pathetic attempt to silence people is getting more comedic by people like yourself trying to invalidate it with half-facts and non-analysis. Face it, you lose.
    Dat der is sum funny math you have. Ok, what exactly have YOU shown to refute? Besides the whole "Because I says so.." (sound familiar} you have done zero research. You did not even bother to watch the video, read any of the links, or look into the people involved. What exactly is the most of your counter-argument? The video is hosted at Think Progress, hence it is .....what exactly? You don't even have to read the website, WATCH THE VIDEO. But you did not, just like a certain other person.

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