View Poll Results: Do you eat organic food?

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  • Yes all the time

    3 4.84%
  • Yes most of the time

    6 9.68%
  • Sometimes

    22 35.48%
  • Not that often

    18 29.03%
  • No never

    13 20.97%
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Thread: Do you eat organic food?

  1. #131
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I am still not sure how you could sustain this population on small organic farms? Are you saying people need to die off?
    I am saying that small intelligently managed farms are more labor intensive but more productive than factory farms. What does the planet have a lot of?- laborers. A well run small farm is a vision of the ecstasy of life. Factory farms leave dead zones in the ocean, in the land. They rely on a diminishing resource (oil and water) to function.

    Look at the history of man and you will see that most civilizations have been extinguished by over population and environmental degradation. This is not a new story and it does not have to end the usual way. But it may, because we are no smarter or more forward looking than the Easter Islanders

  2. #132
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    I am saying that small intelligently managed farms are more labor intensive but more productive than factory farms.
    Do you have any evidence of this? I think they are not nearly as efficient as large scale farms, otherwise it would make no sense for them to exist.

    What does the planet have a lot of?- laborers. A well run small farm is a vision of the ecstasy of life. Factory farms leave dead zones in the ocean, in the land. They rely on a diminishing resource (oil and water) to function.

    so we wouldn't be killing them, just putting them to work?




    Look at the history of man and you will see that most civilizations have been extinguished by over population and environmental degradation. This is not a new story and it does not have to end the usual way. But it may, because we are no smarter or more forward looking than the Easter Islanders

    Easter Islanders died out because of perdue like chicken farms\?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #133
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Do you have any evidence of this? I think they are not nearly as efficient as large scale farms, otherwise it would make no sense for them to exist.
    Recall that we subsidize industrial farming. The two types of farms don't even compete on a level playing field. Earl Butts famously said, "Get Big or Get out" and he designed farm policy with that in mind.

    Government also subsidizes the water use of large farms. Californians are familiar with the old adage, water flows uphill toward money.

    We also tax subsidize the petroleum/ fertilizer that is necessary to factory farming.

    What makes a small farm inefficient is not absence of fertility, it is the nature of factories. WalMart's grocery stores don't want to deal with thousands of different suppliers. They want things to be uniform and predictable and large scale. Yeh, so even "organics" are going large scale



    so we wouldn't be killing them, just putting them to work?
    I think I am losing you. I need you to concentrate there, 'hellhound'. We have already been killing them! So-called free-trade policy allowed U.S. farmers to unload subsidized corn on Mexican/ S. American markets. It bankrupted their small farmers so that rural people were forced to move to cities/maquiladoras in search of jobs. Some came across the border in search of jobs in the U.S.
    Recall that last summer the president of Haiti ( while Haitians fed their kids mud pies!) made the same accusation about agricultural free trade policy resulting in the demise of domestic, non export farming. Ethanol policy plus high oil prices = people starving in many countries.

    It is all of a piece.


    Easter Islanders died out because of perdue like chicken farms\?
    [/quote]
    something like that.

  4. #134
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Recall that we subsidize industrial farming. The two types of farms don't even compete on a level playing field. Earl Butts famously said, "Get Big or Get out" and he designed farm policy with that in mind.
    I am against subsidies, but do not see your point here....


    Government also subsidizes the water use of large farms. Californians are familiar with the old adage, water flows uphill toward money.

    Lets see the links, I am truly interested in your position, though I need verification....


    I love to BBQ you see, and I love to buy small and local, but I fail to see how this "small and local" could work for people not of means.




    We also tax subsidize the petroleum/ fertilizer that is necessary to factory farming.
    Links babe,....


    What makes a small farm inefficient is not absence of fertility, it is the nature of factories. WalMart's grocery stores don't want to deal with thousands of different suppliers. They want things to be uniform and predictable and large scale. Yeh, so even "organics" are going large scale

    I don't go to walmart. But I see why the demand is there. you are speaking in generics, I needa da linkas....





    I think I am losing you. I need you to concentrate there, 'hellhound'. We have already been killing them! So-called free-trade policy allowed U.S. farmers to unload subsidized corn on Mexican/ S. American markets. It bankrupted their small farmers so that rural people were forced to move to cities/maquiladoras in search of jobs. Some came across the border in search of jobs in the U.S.
    Recall that last summer the president of Haiti ( while Haitians fed their kids mud pies!) made the same accusation about agricultural free trade policy resulting in the demise of domestic, non export farming. Ethanol policy plus high oil prices = people starving in many countries.
    You have "ass" in your name... putting quotes around "hellhound" seems like a bad play....


    I am a libertarian conservative, who is sympathetic to your position. I am open to facts and discussion.... lets keep it that way. The Good Reverend has Gameness either way.


    It is all of a piece.




    something like that.

    Expound... I am open....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #135
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I am against subsidies, but do not see your point here....
    The price of a bushel of U.S. grown corn is about a dollar below the cost of producing it. This is kind of a long story that goes back to the inflation and high food prices of the 70s. Earl Butz wanted to reduce food costs so he urged farmers to "plant fence row to fence row", Consolidate (mono culture) and get big or get out" He dismantled the New Deal system but gave farmers direct payments that subsidized any potential losses from over production. So, over production has been the story ever since with policies designed to find uses for all the excess corn.



    Lets see the links, I am truly interested in your position, though I need verification....
    Corporate Farms Get Massive Water Subsidies in California
    The Water Kings of California

    By DAN BACHER

    A small group of wealthy farmers receive the vast majority of water and
    subsidies from the federal Central Valley Project, concludes a
    groundbreaking report issued on December 15 by the Environmental Working
    Group (EWG).

    The study was issued as Indian tribes, anglers, commercial fishermen and
    environmental groups are challenging the negotiation of long term contracts
    between the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and CVP growers because of their
    disastrous impacts upon salmon and other fish populations.



    I love to BBQ you see, and I love to buy small and local, but I fail to see how this "small and local" could work for people not of means.
    I think it is true that it is much more expensive to eat healthfully. But the cost of the way things are done, now, is high- Obesity, diabetes, cancer, fish die offs, top soil loss etc
    I don't go to walmart. But I see why the demand is there. you are speaking in generics, I needa da linkas....
    I don't know that I can provide links, online. Much of my information comes from reading Michael Pollan's books as well as Jared Diamond ("Collapse"). The movie, "FoodInc." is based on Pollan's research, so I hear...I have not seen it yet but you can watch an excellent trailer here:
    Official Food, Inc. Movie Site - Hungry For Change?


    I am a libertarian conservative, who is sympathetic to your position. I am open to facts and discussion.... lets keep it that way. The Good Reverend has Gameness either way.
    O.K. you should be sympathetic! U.S. farm policy is distorted by subsidies producing perverse incentives. Small farms, buying local, supporting communities...they are conservative notions!

    Now, I admit the notion of "organics" smacks of elitism, especially because many organic farms have become factory farms who expend plenty of petrol sending the produce all over the country. The benefits in some cases are questionable.

    As far as I am concerned there are three main issues:

    Personal health- the jury is still out on how helpful 'organics' may be.

    Farm policy- that is encouraging U.S. citizens to become fat and unhealthy on cheap, corn based calories AND placing foreign small farmers at a terrible disadvantage

    The future of agriculture- what will happen when oil prices rise, (probably abruptly) the cheap grains are no longer cheap and fertile land is scarce. On this point, it is very interesting to read about Cuba's agricultural revolution after the Russians abruptly ceased to send them oil.
    The Cuba diet: What will you be eating when the revolution comes?, By Bill McKibben (Harper's Magazine)

  6. #136
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    Re: Do you eat organic food?

    I think farm subsidies should be ended if full. As for eating organic, I don't make it a point but I don't avoid it either. I go to the farmer's market in time when I save up money (you don't make any money as a grad student), you can even buy part of a milk cow in town, I know a buddy who does that. I still don't know if organic means can outdo "inorganic" means of production on the whole. I'd want a lot more data on that one before I believe it. But I also don't see why a mix isn't reasonable. Go buy local when you can, and if not then don't worry about it.
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