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Thread: Role of government in Education

  1. #51
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    i hope you're kidding.

    I don't know about UK but education in America is a joke compared to the education we received in USSR.

    We started physics in 5th grade. In 9th grade we were doing 7th order equations. Then I came to USA and learned NOTHING in high school. Then I went to a private university and on my 2nd year finally got to revisit the same kind of math I was doing 7 years ago in Kiev. The university I attended here in NY is notorious for being one of the hardest with freshman dropout rate of 70%.

    In USSR if you didn't do well in school your parents would BEAT YOU until you did better. They would beat you as much as it took. in America I would sit in class with my Sony minidisk player and headphones on my head and EXPLAIN THE SUBJECT TO MY TEACHER when i was bored.
    Our education requirements are not strong enough. I agree.

    I think it likely that this is, in part, due to attempts at making it easier for some students to advance, which would have caused them to study far more than more gifted ones, thus alienating them from their "peers". In other words, possibly hurting their feelings, a known horror to be avoided at all costs (including the education level of those who could do better).

    However, from the sound of things, you may be very good at math (I myself am probably average), and in the USSR they likely recognized that and focused on it in their instruction of you. This has itís advantages (improving an area that is already a strength), but if they reduced your instruction in other areas it would limit your overall education to an extent.

    Now, as to the beating of kids if they did poorly, that cannot be done in the USA at this time (at least not without repercussions for the parents). And further, I personally think there are better ways, which avoid potential mental/physical harm to a child.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #52
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Our education requirements are not strong enough. I agree.

    I think it likely that this is, in part, due to attempts at making it easier for some students to advance, which would have caused them to study far more than more gifted ones, thus alienating them from their "peers". In other words, possibly hurting their feelings, a known horror to be avoided at all costs (including the education level of those who could do better).
    to be honest i am not very concerned with providing people with education. i am more concerned with people escaping indoctrination.

    also it is my belief that the government DOES NOT CARE whether students learn anything useful or not. and this is the primary and ONLY reason why they don't.

    i believe every individual must do his own research. i don't believe in education at all. i believe in research. all information should be available to anybody interested in it, thats all. no need to instruct anybody.

    if the state can make sure that a child doesn't have to work ( in order to have TIME to study ) to exist comfortably. if the state can make sure every child has a computer and access to internet. if the state can make sure every child can order any book from Amazon or borrow it from the library then the state has mostly done its job. paying for an actual building with teachers in it is sort of optional i think - of course it would be nice to have that as well.

    having police officers detain kids who have been cutting classes is NOT about education. its about CONTROL.
    Last edited by NEUROSPORT; 07-28-09 at 10:38 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post

    for example you are given a definition of the word "patriot" and on a test you are asked to repeat that definition.

    now what if you happen to THINK that a patriot is a stupid f*cking degenerate completely brainwashed by the state who derives sexual pleasure from mutilating children by bombing them with napalm and cluster bombs ? that is not the definition you were given so you fail the test. you are then informed that you are a failure.
    ...Except in this case you'd be WRONG and DESERVE to fail....

    so you are a *success* when you REPEAT the information given to you and *failure* when you THINK for yourself.

    this is how education is structured and that's how it churns out sheep.
    That depends on the teacher.

    If a teacher teaches by memorization then yes, kids are just repeating information.

    If a teacher uses a more thinking-friendly method, then no.

    What it does NOT depend on is the government.

  4. #54
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    ...Except in this case you'd be WRONG and DESERVE to fail...
    wrong according to whom ?

  5. #55
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    i hope you're kidding.

    i don't know about UK but education in America is a joke compared to the education we received in USSR.

    we started physics in 5th grade. in 9th grade we were doing 7th order equations. then i came to USA and learned NOTHING in high school. then i went to a private university and on my 2nd year finally got to revisit the same kind of math i was doing 7 years ago in Kiev. the university i attended here in NY is notorious for being one of the hardest with freshman dropout rate of 70%. people tell horror stories about it here in NY yet back in USSR it would have been considered completely normal.

    in USSR if you didn't do well in school your parents would BEAT YOU until you did better. they would beat you as much as it took. in America i would sit in class with my sony minidisc player and headphones on my head and EXPLAIN THE SUBJECT TO MY TEACHER when i was bored.
    American education is not one thing.
    Every state, and every county within that state, has different education policies.
    They might be good in one place and bad in the other. Trying to paint "American education" as one thing is incorrect.

  6. #56
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    wrong according to whom ?
    According to the dictionary, which is where one would typically go for definitions.

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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    That depends on the teacher.

    If a teacher teaches by memorization then yes, kids are just repeating information.

    If a teacher uses a more thinking-friendly method, then no.

    What it does NOT depend on is the government.
    don't you have to take standardized state history tests ?

    isn't the teacher PRESSURED to have his students do well on these tests ?

    isn't that in effect FORCING him to have kids MEMORIZE THE ANSWERS to questions ?
    Last edited by NEUROSPORT; 07-28-09 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    According to the dictionary, which is where one would typically go for definitions.
    i would go here:

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism]Patriotism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    and that's probably not the question your teacher is expecting.

    in other words giving an intelligent answer would make you FAIL while giving a brain dead answer would make you pass.
    Last edited by NEUROSPORT; 07-28-09 at 10:46 PM.

  9. #59
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    don't you have to take standardized state history tests ?
    Yes.

    Before those came along education was crap. Teachers taught whatever the hell they wanted and got away with it; as a consequence "self-esteem" became more important than actual knowledge.

    Then the standardized tests came along. Kids had to actually KNOW things. Education improved dramatically. Don't tell me that standardized tests are just kids barking things back, they require teachers to actually TEACH things.

    Now, I have some issues with the test, but it's better than no test for sure.

  10. #60
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    Re: Role of government in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post

    isn't the teacher PRESSURED to have his students do well on these tests ?

    isn't that in effect FORCING him to have kids MEMORIZE THE ANSWERS to questions ?
    We don't memorize the answers because we don't know what the questions will be until the test comes.

    The SOLs really aren't anything, they require a few weeks of study max and the rest of the year the teachers can do anything else. In International Bacheloriate (the program I'm in) there are other tests, BETTER ones, which we spend all year preparing for.

    In regular classes... education is still crap unfortunately. As I learned in my non-IB English class last year.

    More importantly... EVERYONE has to take these SOLs, whether in public school or in private school. So it's really not important to the topic.

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