View Poll Results: Is the left's war on health care doomed?

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  • Yes

    13 44.83%
  • No

    8 27.59%
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    8 27.59%
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Thread: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

  1. #1
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    Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    The polling momentum is against the scheme now. I doubt it can be recovered in the foreseeable future.
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    "Doomed" might be a bit premature. HR3200 is definitely in trouble, though.

    For good reasons:

    • It does not reform health care. That would require the investment in preventive medicine found in HR2520 and S1099.
    • It does not reform health insurance. Congress would have to pass HR2520 and S1099 to accomplish that.
    • It does not contain or control health costs, which would happen under the market mechanisms of HR2520 and S1099.
    • It imposes government regulation and government bureaucracy to limit care and limit choice, something HR2520 and S1099 wisely avoid.

    On top of all that, HR3200 commits the worst legislative sin of all:

    HR3200 is UNCONSTITUTIONAL

    A defect which cannot be said of HR2520 and S1099.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Being unconstitutional never stopped a bill before. We're paying for Socialist Security, aren't we?

    But that the bill is failing is damn good news.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    The problem is, they want health care to magically get better but they're not willing to attack the actual problems inherent in the system that have caused it to be as bad as it is to begin with. Given the ridiculous litigious nature of ambulance-chasing lawyers who sue because they know most doctors can't spare the time to sit in a courtroom, which causes malpractice insurance to skyrocket and raise everyone's cost, given the fact that government and insurance companies only pay about 10-20% of the actual cost of procedures, thereby forcing hospitals to charge $2000 for $200 procedures to make their money back, it's no wonder we have problems, but nothing Obama's plan does addresses either of these. He just hopes that magically everything will get better instead of recognizing that to fix the problems, the fundamental nature of the health care industry needs to change and that'll piss off pretty much everyone, especially the people who pump millions into the Democrat election coffers.
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    As a foreign observer, I believe that the U.S. has proven time and time again that it has the ability to do anything it wants as long as the will is there. Its people are determined dreamers most of the time. But when it comes to sharing, America has a lot to learn.

    Common trust in the U.S. is not that high. It is higher when compared to the undeveloped world, but when compared to other developed nations, its people do not care as much about one another. The idea that sharing anything = socialism = evil/must kill, is very prevalent in your society and is going to fracture unity in the long term.

    The nations that are most successful in the long term, and I mean over the course of 500 years or more, have common trust that is high. People wish each other well, and aren't afraid of pitching in a little extra to help their neighbour, as opposed to the idea that your neighbour is going to suck you dry at the first opportunity.

    Universal health care will not come to the U.S. because people do not believe in sharing, the common trust (in terms of the idea that MOST people would not abuse UHC if it existed), or extending goals beyond one's self-interest. It is still very much a corporate-driven, individualist, consumer society where community has been put on the backburner.
    Last edited by Orion; 07-27-09 at 03:27 AM.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The problem is, they want health care to magically get better but they're not willing to attack the actual problems inherent in the system that have caused it to be as bad as it is to begin with. Given the ridiculous litigious nature of ambulance-chasing lawyers who sue because they know most doctors can't spare the time to sit in a courtroom, which causes malpractice insurance to skyrocket and raise everyone's cost, given the fact that government and insurance companies only pay about 10-20% of the actual cost of procedures, thereby forcing hospitals to charge $2000 for $200 procedures to make their money back, it's no wonder we have problems, but nothing Obama's plan does addresses either of these. He just hopes that magically everything will get better instead of recognizing that to fix the problems, the fundamental nature of the health care industry needs to change and that'll piss off pretty much everyone, especially the people who pump millions into the Democrat election coffers.

    Those politicians don't give a rat's ass about health care and the health of Americans. All they care about is getting control of the health care industry and the power that will give them.

    A politician lives by "doing" things "for" his constituents. The more he can do for them, the more impressive he looks in their eyes and the more assurance he has of being re-elected. Socailized medicine is one of the ultimate scams by which the politician creates a flawed system for which he won't be blamed (notice the Messiah's perpetual condemnation of Bush - it's not just his whiny menstrual cycle in action, it's deliberate) and for which he can claim infinite credit for "saving lives".

    No matter that under a federal aegis health care in this nation will be rationed. The word rationing isn't going to be mentioned by the beneficiaries of socialized medicine, the politicians. Every and all problems associated with health care will be the fault of "Goldstein", ie, the evil profiteering insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Every and all special dispensation by the government will be promoted as the benevolent gift of the concerned parent to the deserving child.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 07-27-09 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    This is the first time in a while that I am so staunchly against a Democratic bill. Its not reform, but it is change, but is it the right change? I don't think so.

    I hope this bill fails, and then we should take the Republicans plan ...

    Oh wait, what plan? Where have all the other plans gone! Oh my!


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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    We have the best health care in the world, if one can afford it....

    The poor and near poor... a fast growing segment ??, the scraps for them....

    Those in the middle ??
    When the entire world (except the USA and Somalia) has a good affordable health care system, then maybe the AMA and the wealthy conservatives will accede, out of embarrassment.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    And who will the Dems blame, even though they have a solid majority in both houses, including a fillibuster-proof Senate?

    That's right -- the GOP.

    Never mind that the GOP can't do a THING to stop it.

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