View Poll Results: Is the left's war on health care doomed?

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  • Yes

    13 44.83%
  • No

    8 27.59%
  • Maybe

    8 27.59%
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Thread: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

  1. #11
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    As a foreign observer, I believe that the U.S. has proven time and time again that it has the ability to do anything it wants as long as the will is there. Its people are determined dreamers most of the time. But when it comes to sharing, America has a lot to learn.

    Common trust in the U.S. is not that high. It is higher when compared to the undeveloped world, but when compared to other developed nations, its people do not care as much about one another. The idea that sharing anything = socialism = evil/must kill, is very prevalent in your society and is going to fracture unity in the long term.

    The nations that are most successful in the long term, and I mean over the course of 500 years or more, have common trust that is high. People wish each other well, and aren't afraid of pitching in a little extra to help their neighbour, as opposed to the idea that your neighbour is going to suck you dry at the first opportunity.

    Universal health care will not come to the U.S. because people do not believe in sharing, the common trust (in terms of the idea that MOST people would not abuse UHC if it existed), or extending goals beyond one's self-interest. It is still very much a corporate-driven, individualist, consumer society where community has been put on the backburner.
    It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. Hell I help strangers all the time.

    The problem is that we demand that our rights not be taken away. Which is what this health bill attempts to do.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Universal health care will not come to the U.S. because people do not believe in sharing, the common trust (in terms of the idea that MOST people would not abuse UHC if it existed), or extending goals beyond one's self-interest. It is still very much a corporate-driven, individualist, consumer society where community has been put on the backburner.
    The thing is that here in the US nearly everyone can rise above poverty if they make the right choices and work hard enough. So there is no reason the poor cannot have more in life if they choose.

  3. #13
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    The Senate Finance committee and Baucus / Grassley are the game to watch, but,

    But, as to the poll question - doomed? No way, this baby's gonna pass.

  4. #14
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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    As a foreign observer, I believe that the U.S. has proven time and time again that it has the ability to do anything it wants as long as the will is there. Its people are determined dreamers most of the time. But when it comes to sharing, America has a lot to learn.

    Common trust in the U.S. is not that high. It is higher when compared to the undeveloped world, but when compared to other developed nations, its people do not care as much about one another. The idea that sharing anything = socialism = evil/must kill, is very prevalent in your society and is going to fracture unity in the long term.

    The nations that are most successful in the long term, and I mean over the course of 500 years or more, have common trust that is high. People wish each other well, and aren't afraid of pitching in a little extra to help their neighbour, as opposed to the idea that your neighbour is going to suck you dry at the first opportunity.

    Universal health care will not come to the U.S. because people do not believe in sharing, the common trust (in terms of the idea that MOST people would not abuse UHC if it existed), or extending goals beyond one's self-interest. It is still very much a corporate-driven, individualist, consumer society where community has been put on the backburner.

    The fight against the evil USSR consumed and shaped our national identity. Most people in their 30s and older had fear of communism and socialism drilled into them at a very very young age, so anything that sounds like it might be part of a belief system that we fought against for so long is not popular here. Although, oddly enough, for all the opposition tried to demonize obama as a "socialist" in the last election, what they seemed to have accomplished is convincing under-30s that socialism ain't that bad. Under 30s liked Obama in overwhelming numbers, and the opposition said he was a socialist, so now under 30s aren't afraid of socialism.

    However, the individualist is a strong theme in our culture too, from our pioneer and immigrant history, probably.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Whats the matter with u fellas,if u are not working and have no money,i think
    u should get look after,what is the problem about that if your ill.,but if u dont like that way just die,if u want it that way,by by..

    mikeey

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    What can u do if u dont have a place to live,also no money,is it dog eat dog
    in America,if it is like that u deserve all u get for not helping each other out.

    mind u look what happend to the banks,how they stole of the working people,

    here in the uk they just did that,but just like me i fu--k them in every way i could,no probs about that. I hope u guys do the same.

    love u American guys forever and ever.

    To the End of Time.

    mikeey

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. Hell I help strangers all the time.

    The problem is that we demand that our rights not be taken away. Which is what this health bill attempts to do.
    Your right to the opportunity of UHC was taken away when your government decided to spend half a trillion dollars on its military annually. It could spare 1% of that to create UHC infrastructure that would not increase your taxes.

    The "right" you speak of revolves around the idea that you should get to choose your health care. That won't change with UHC. You just don't like the idea that your tax dollars would pay for someone else, that's all. It's this type of greed and distrust that is leading the U.S. down a dangerous divisionist path.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    The thing is that here in the US nearly everyone can rise above poverty if they make the right choices and work hard enough. So there is no reason the poor cannot have more in life if they choose.
    If you seriously believe that, then you wouldn't mind explaining why there are so many homeless people and millions living below the poverty line? Clearly not everyone has opportunity... you make poverty seem so black and white. It's never that simple.

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Your right to the opportunity of UHC was taken away when your government decided to spend half a trillion dollars on its military annually. It could spare 1% of that to create UHC infrastructure that would not increase your taxes.
    Our military helped defeat Nazism, Japanese Imperialism, and Communism. How easily the world forgets...

    The "right" you speak of revolves around the idea that you should get to choose your health care. That won't change with UHC. You just don't like the idea that your tax dollars would pay for someone else, that's all. It's this type of greed and distrust that is leading the U.S. down a dangerous divisionist path.
    That's exactly right. I don't like the idea of my money being forcefully redistributed to strangers. What's wrong with that?

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    Re: Democrats admit they are losing the war on health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Our military helped defeat Nazism, Japanese Imperialism, and Communism. How easily the world forgets...
    How much longer are people like you going to continue to milk the nationalist propaganda machine in order to justify lack of present action? I don't give a damn what happened 50+ years ago... it is not relevant to current domestic policy. Fact is, your government could spare that 1% easily while still maintaining a forward domestic momentum; the other fact is, though, that it won't, for the simple fact that the U.S. is a military nation and the welfare of its citizens is low priority.

    Your entire system is setup to cater to the rich elites, and health care is one such aparatus: the pharmaceutical industry with its inflated prices, the insurance companies (and their corrupt, scheming rules), and the lack of public policy to regulate either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's exactly right. I don't like the idea of my money being forcefully redistributed to strangers. What's wrong with that?
    Your money is already being redistributed... to rich strangers, and not commoners. Everytime you visit a doctor, buy a medication, or use your private insurance, some fat, rich guy is sitting in his leather chair having a hardy laugh at your expense.

    The fact that you can only see ONE angle of the situation - "my money and no one else's" - is obscuring the fact that UHC, if done correctly, would create healthy competition and thus reduce costs for the common people. But no, all you can see is your individualist "mine mine mine" point of view.

    America doesn't deserve UHC. Its people want to remain ill and ripped off.

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