View Poll Results: Does ObamaCare violate the 10th Amendment?

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    18 81.82%
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Thread: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

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    Sage

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    Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Unfortunately, the article makes no real case for HR3200 violating the Tenth Amendment, although, as with many aspects of the Federal welfare state, it does do exactly that.

    Nowhere in the powers granted to Congress under Article I section 8 of the Constitution is there the power to create, fund, and sell to the public health insurance.

    The powers afforded the Congress under Article I Section 8:
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    To provide and maintain a Navy;
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
    There is no power of Congress to sell health insurance to the people of the United States, nor is there a power to dictate to the people of the United States that they must have health insurance. HR3200 does both of these things. Selling health insurance is neither necessary nor proper for the carrying into execution any of the enumerated powers. The Tenth Amendment reserves all other powers to the states and to the people; because the power of the Congress to sell health insurance is not found within the body of the Constitution, the Tenth Amendment operates to preclude that activity by the Congress.

    Unlike The Patients' Choice Act (HR2520/S1099), which channels its energies into how markets for health insurance are regulated, and thus is permissible within the power to regulate Commerce "among the Several States", HR3200 replaces that market with government fiat--even worse, with federal government fiat.

    There is a proper way for government to fulfill the mandate of the Constitution, for it to "...form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...," and, by so doing, address the structural defects and iniquities in health care markets today. HR3200 is not that proper way. The Patients' Choice Act, while not a complete solution, is a proper step in that direction.

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    All powers not directly given to the Federal goverment shall be given to the States and people. Hence the people are represented by the Congress thus they have a right to act outside the limited authority they were given.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    All powers not directly given to the Federal goverment shall be given to the States and people. Hence the people are represented by the Congress thus they have a right to act outside the limited authority they were given.
    Ummm....no.

    That is not how the Constitution reads. Congress has limited, not unlimited authority, under the Constitution.

    Congressmen and Senators swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. It is past time they lived up to their oath.

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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    All powers not directly given to the Federal goverment shall be given to the States and people. Hence the people are represented by the Congress thus they have a right to act outside the limited authority they were given.
    If that were true why have a constitution at all?
    I mean it would be self contradicting if that's what it means.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If that were true why have a constitution at all?
    I mean it would be self contradicting if that's what it means.
    Nothing about the constitution is holy, thats the way the founders made it. Amendments can basically change the constitution at will.
    The constitution created a starting point a frame, by which we build and are improving our house. It is not a document that is above being changed. Thus all powers not directly given to the Federal goverment must go through the agreement of the majority of the Peoples and State representative, and the Executive Branch.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Nothing about the constitution is holy, thats the way the founders made it. Amendments can basically change the constitution at will.
    The constitution created a starting point a frame, by which we build and are improving our house. It is not a document that is above being changed. Thus all powers not directly given to the Federal goverment must go through the agreement of the majority of the Peoples and State representative, and the Executive Branch.
    It's a giant pain in the ass to pass an amendment for a reason though.

    It's a "I hope you really want what your asking for" situation.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Nothing about the constitution is holy, thats the way the founders made it. Amendments can basically change the constitution at will.
    The constitution created a starting point a frame, by which we build and are improving our house. It is not a document that is above being changed. Thus all powers not directly given to the Federal goverment must go through the agreement of the majority of the Peoples and State representative, and the Executive Branch.
    The Constitution can be changed--by the process of Amendment.

    Absent a change via an Amendment, the Constitution is as it is written--neither more nor less.

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Of course it violates the 10th amendment. But if the 10th amendment isn't followed for things where the federal government can trample state's rights to not give a fun concealment permit to everyone, so who cares.

    Everything violates the 10th amendment, so there is no point in complaining too much about the newest violation...

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    Re: Obama's War On Health Care Tramples the 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The Constitution can be changed--by the process of Amendment.

    Absent a change via an Amendment, the Constitution is as it is written--neither more nor less.
    It would be so easy. Basically everyone in congress supports some form of every program that we use. There could easily be a 2/3 majority to add SS, healthcare, regulations or public education to the powers of congress.

    Even if politicians disagree on the application of those programs, they at least agree that some form of them should exist.

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