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  • Id be concerned if Obama was a Muslim or Athiest/Agnostic

    5 8.62%
  • I wouldnt care if Obama was a Muslim/Athiest/Agnostic

    39 67.24%
  • Id care if he was Muslim only

    5 8.62%
  • Other (explain)

    10 17.24%
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Thread: So what if Obama is Muslim?

  1. #61
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Are insults part of being open minded? If so then your doing a good job of it. In any case Islam is dangerous and this is backed up by the situation in nearly all Muslim nations. So I wouldnt want that here, at least with the other religions we know what to expect.
    That's awkward thinking.


    Mate, dont put words in my mouth. Where have I said I hate anyone? My my isnt it your bedtime yet?
    I didn't say you hate muslims, I'm just saying that its a concept that's widely accepted in the U.S. and basic dislike for the religion, which seems to be your opinion, is stems from the hate and accepted. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your personal opinion stems from hate.

    And what are you talking about when you say "bedtime?"


    Do you know anything about Hinduism?
    Yes, I know a lot about Hinduism. Its true man, the caste system is now more a societal thing than a religious thing.

    Are you really so ignorant?
    Talk to Hindus in the U.S., maybe not all of them think that way, but many do.

    Most who believe in the vigorous caste system mainly reside in India and that too in rural society on the majority. Many who live in urban society or big cities don't "believe" in the caste system, but they don't necessarily go out and protest it. Its accepted in India, I agree its a horrible thing, but you should not couple that with Hinduism and then denounce the entire religion. What you're doing is like a non-Christian saying "the Templars were wrong for doing what they did during the crusades, therefore the entire religion is wrong." You're amplifying the situation, something that many Americans do in regards to Islam.
    Last edited by Cilogy; 07-26-09 at 10:54 PM.


  2. #62
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    That's awkward thinking too.
    That is an ignorant, you are not open minded! Not at all!


    I didn't say you hate muslims, I'm just saying that its a concept that's widely accepted in the U.S. and basic dislike for the religion, which seems to be your opinion, is related and accepted.
    There is a reason for this dislike?

    And what are you talking about when you say "bedtime?"
    You are acting like a child.


    Yes, I know a lot about Hinduism. Its true man, the caste system is now more a societal thing than a religious thing.
    The caste system is a cital part of the Hindu religion, whether it has become a social concept as well is meaningless really in this debate.

    Talk to Hindus in the U.S., maybe not all of them think that way, but many do.
    If they dont follow the Caste system they are not Hindus.

    Most who believe in the vigorous caste system mainly reside in India and that too in rural society on the majority. Many who live in urban society or big cities don't "believe" in the caste system, but they don't necessarily go out and protest it. Its accepted in India, I agree its a horrible thing, but you should not couple that with Hinduism and then denounce the entire religion.
    Why shouldnt I couple the main concept of a religion to that religion????

    What you're doing is like a non-Christian saying "the Templars were wrong for doing what they did during the crusades, therefore the entire religion is wrong." You're amplifying the situation, something that many Americans do in regards to Islam.
    Templars were not a seperate religious group. Please educate yourself before jumping into the deep water.


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  3. #63
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    You are acting like a child.
    No I am not, I already told you that I am not putting words in your mouth. Remember, I am not choosing to call you a child.




    The caste system is a cital part of the Hindu religion, whether it has become a social concept as well is meaningless really in this debate.
    If they dont follow the Caste system they are not Hindus.
    Ok, you're stepping into a whole new pool of water here, the "I consider myself part of this religion because of this" pool. Everyone has a different perception of their own religion and they still consider themselves to be part of religion. We could argue for hours about what constitutes a person as a "real" Christian or Muslim or Hindu. The differences of opinion is where people break off into sects or completely different perceptions of the same general religion.

    For example Catholics and Protestants have very differing viewpoints, yet both still consider themselves Christians.

    I mean, I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD and I'm still considering myself Hindu.

    My point is that you are taking one portion of the religion that not all Hindus believe in and amplifying it to associate it to all Hindus.


    Why shouldnt I couple the main concept of a religion to that religion????
    No you can do that but I'm just saying its wrong to couple it and associate it to the entire religion and every Hindu.


    Templars were not a seperate religious group. Please educate yourself before jumping into the deep water.
    Wow, I never said that. In fact I was basically saying the exact opposite. They did what they did in the name of Christianity, or so they believed. So what I was doing was using that as an example of something that people could twist and say that it represents ALL of Christianity, which I know it does not; it was an example.

    You completely misunderstood my wording. I'm not trying to backlash or criticize you, but I'm telling you honestly, please do not twist my words, because then I have to go back and explain something that I already explained.

    I really want to make sure you understand what I am saying so let me know something about you. Do you have a religion? If so what religion do you consider yourself to be a part of?
    Last edited by Cilogy; 07-26-09 at 11:31 PM.


  4. #64
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    No I am not, I already told you that I am not putting words in your mouth. Remember, I am not choosing to call you a child.
    No u.




    For example Catholics and Protestants have very differing viewpoints, yet both still consider themselves Christians.
    Right but there wasnt a division in the Hindu religion, what happend was the creation of Buddism.

    I mean, I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD and I'm still considering myself Hindu.
    Right because you should believe in multiple Gods if your a Hindu.

    My point is that you are taking one portion of the religion that not all Hindus believe in and amplifying it to associate it to all Hindus.
    I am sorry that you disagree, but Caste system is an integral part of Hinduism. Its like saying I am Christian but I dont think Jesus existed.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  5. #65
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Right but there wasnt a division in the Hindu religion, what happend was the creation of Buddism.
    Yes you are right.



    Right because you should believe in multiple Gods if your a Hindu.
    See this is my point, if I continue to argue this with you we would dive into that ongoing debate about what constitutes a believer. What I'm telling you is that everyone has a different perception of their religion, and at this point you are just assuming you know how every Hindu should be.

    We are both accusing the other of being narrowminded, whatever. What I'm telling you is that you are being narrowminded because you are acting as if you control who is a Hindu and who is not. Yet what I am saying is that that concept is impossible to utilize because we are humans and all of us perceive things differently in our own minds.

    You are saying "no, this is how it is, this is how it should be for everyone, forget your opinion, this is how it is." This is exactly what is wrong with your argument, and you expect to accept this about humanity.

    I mean, what if I said "OxymoronP, you are not human because of this and that." Now wouldn't you disagree with that? I mean you are obviously human and it makes no sense for me to expect that you would accept the fact that
    you are not human right? You are basically doing the same thing. You are expecting me, as well as all followers of religions, to accept the fact that you must follow one set of strict guidelines in order to be considered a Hindu or Christian or what have you.

    I am sorry that you disagree, but Caste system is an integral part of Hinduism. Its like saying I am Christian but I dont think Jesus existed.
    Yeah and I'm saying that's what people do. In fact I know someone who doesn't worship Jesus, but still considers herself a Christian because of her belief in Christian philosophies. Actually that's what I do, I consider myself a Hindu and yet do not believe in god(s) because I follow certain philosphies and morals displayed in that religion. I call it agnostic Hinduism. One of these philosophies is accepting the beliefs of others as different but not denouncing or criticizing them without due cause.

    Also, it still seems like you are misunderstanding me, so please answer my questions so that I can explain myself better:

    Do you have a religion? If so, what religion do you consider yourself to be a part of?


  6. #66
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    See this is my point, if I continue to argue this with you we would dive into that ongoing debate about what constitutes a believer. What I'm telling you is that everyone has a different perception of their religion, and at this point you are just assuming you know how every Hindu should be.
    If you dont follow a religions main themes then you dont really follow the religion you simply associate with the culture.



    You are saying "no, this is how it is, this is how it should be for everyone, forget your opinion, this is how it is." This is exactly what is wrong with your argument, and you expect to accept this about humanity.

    Religion isnt something where you can pick and choose. Either you follow it or you do not.

    I mean, what if I said "OxymoronP, you are not human because of this and that." Now wouldn't you disagree with that? I mean you are obviously human and it makes no sense for me to expect that you would accept the fact that
    you are not human right? You are basically doing the same thing. You are expecting me, as well as all followers of religions, to accept the fact that you must follow one set of strict guidelines in order to be considered a Hindu or Christian or what have you.
    If I told you I am a human but I dont need to eat,drink or breathe then I wouldnt really be a human.


    Yeah and I'm saying that's what people do. In fact I know someone who doesn't worship Jesus, but still considers herself a Christian because of her belief in Christian philosophies. Actually that's what I do, I consider myself a Hindu and yet do not believe in god(s) because I follow certain philosphies and morals displayed in that religion. I call it agnostic Hinduism. One of these philosophies is accepting the beliefs of others as different but not denouncing or criticizing them without due cause.
    If you dont accept Jesus then you are not Christian. You are not Hindu, you are agnostic with affinity toward the Hindu society.



    Do you have a religion? If so, what religion do you consider yourself to be a part of?
    I am a Neo Pagan/Shamanism.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  7. #67
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Theres reports flying about everywhere that Obama is not an American citizen, there is no birth certificate record of him being from Hawai, and above all, that Obama has adopted the faith of his father, and is actually a muslim.

    Now, America claims to be the land of the free, and the most modernized, liberal country, so why does the media feel like its a scandal that Obama may be a Muslim, and why are so many American citizens sensitive to the issue? Why have many in the American public adopted the attitude of the media and too do believe if he is a Muslim, it is a scandal? So what if he WAS a Muslim? How would the populace react if he was an open Atheist or Agnostic? Is religion, and this backwards way of thinking, still very prevelant in the most Westernized country in the world?

    Well,,,other than the fact he's been denying being a Muslim the whole time,,,which would make him a Liar. No surprise there though... And ,,, the fact that Radical Islam is at War with the Western World, makes it rather dangerous for America...

    True?

  8. #68
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    I guess for the people who believe in freedom of religion it is time to put your money were your mouth is.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  9. #69
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Well,,,other than the fact he's been denying being a Muslim the whole time,,,which would make him a Liar. No surprise there though... And ,,, the fact that Radical Islam is at War with the Western World, makes it rather dangerous for America...

    True?
    It depends. If he is a muslim, yet approves of the political theory of secularism, and realizes like many muslims do that the Middle East is full with corrupted, extremist leaders and terrorists, and acknowledges those very people pose a threat to his country and all in it (christians, jews and muslims), then i dont think it would be dangerous for America if he was a Muslim. And even so, he isnt Christian. I dont consider people "Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc" if they are only that in theory and not practice.

    For example, in Turkey, 98% claim they are Muslims, yet less that 13% of that entire population actually practice Islam in their homes. A bit like the UK, only a small minority of all those who claim to be Anglican are actually Anglican in practice and not just say they are.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  10. #70
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    PS: For all those who voted that you'd care if he was a Muslim or Athiest or Agnostic, why would you be concerned if he was Athiest/Agnostic? Is there an actual reason behind this or is it just sheer religious blabber on your part? Explain.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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