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  • Id be concerned if Obama was a Muslim or Athiest/Agnostic

    5 8.62%
  • I wouldnt care if Obama was a Muslim/Athiest/Agnostic

    39 67.24%
  • Id care if he was Muslim only

    5 8.62%
  • Other (explain)

    10 17.24%
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Thread: So what if Obama is Muslim?

  1. #51
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Except, it's not.

    America is a representative republic.

    Sorry, just cause you say it's something else doesn't make it that... and is quite ****ing retarded.
    Yes, but people refer to America as a nation, a Democracy, regardless of what it actually may be. Im not saying its something else, am i?

    And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.
    John F. Kennedy
    Doubt there was controversy back in the day when Kennedy said this because America isnt a country but a representative republic!
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  2. #52
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There's actually a little more to it than that, Laila. As I recall he went to a madrassa, a Muslim religious school, in his youth, but he said "it didn't take". Given our current war-on-terror status, that sort of thing worried some people. Some are still worried by it.

    THAT doesn't concern me greatly. IMHO Obama's true religion is Radical Leftism...and that does worry me.
    I think if one was determined to be worried by that, then yeah, they would be. But no-one should be. Unlike the majority of Americans, who have little to no practical experience with Islam, Barack Obama has seen the basic principles, and STILL believes Christianity is the true path for him.

    Then again, I don't honestly believe those who argue that Obama has some big secret ties to Islam are arguing in good faith. It's just a convenient topic with which to whip up fear and discontent.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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  3. #53
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    If Christianity or Judaism was just as studied and followed as faithfully, it would be no more tolerant than Islam. All 3 major religions do have perversions and intolerance within their scripture in one sense or the other.
    Sadly, the ecumenicist view that is so popular and politically correct is based on myth -- that there is little difference between major religions.

    The three great Monotheistic Religions are indeed quite different in their outlook towards people outside the faith.

    Judaism, I have noticed works to find a functional fairness in dealing with people who often persecuted that people.

    I’ve included a reference to an essay on the topic below.

    Christianity demands much more from its adherents, that they forgive, bless and in many ways serve their tormentors. Representative passages from Scripture are included below.

    Islam however – and remember that the Koran is considered to be a perfect and precise transliteration of the express will of Allah, has a somewhat different outlook on those of other outlook.

    While there are other passages that suggest a more benign approach to “Infidels” in the Koran and other Islamic texts, my understanding is that these I present are considered by much of the Traditionalist Islamic World to be uncompromising and direct.

    The Non-Jew in Jewish Law
    Sometimes, however, Jews afforded privileges to non-Jews despite the lack of reciprocity. The Jewish community took care of its own poor, and charity from non-Jews was not accepted. And yet, Jews provided charity to the non-Jewish poor and buried their dead, for the sake of peace (Mishnah Gittin 5.8; Shulhan Arukh Yoreh Deah 254, 256).
    Matthew 5:44
    But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    Luke 6:35
    But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
    The Koran
    [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    European history demonstrates this, christians were highly blood thirsty during the middle ages for example and the wars between the sects was prevelant as was oppression of women and that was partly because there was a fear of God and more people did follow the text closely.

    This is somewhat true, and largely false.

    The Christian Writ is explicit in its directives regarding greed, murder, hatred and aggression.

    Remember though that most of the people involved in the more egregious acts of brutality in the name of Christ were illiterates who could not read the Scriptures for themselves. They were easy cats paws for unscrupulous plotters.

    Another thing to consider was that at least in the First Crusade, the military action was largely a response the violent Muslim expansion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The reason why Christianity is better than Islam in a sense is because the power of it has weakened, secularism has taken root in Europe as has common sense which still has not occured in the wider Muslim world.

    To say Islam would be more bloody the more religious Muslims got is nonsense. The golden age of Arab and Islamic studies happened during a highly religious period for Muslims whilst Europe had fallen into the dark ages. There was equality for women where there wasn't none for women in the west and this was at a period where Arabic scholars studied and looked closely at Islam and followed and it was in those texts the tolerance and learning came through.
    This again is somewhat, perhaps mostly, mythical.

    The fervency of Islamic observance has waxed and waned. Certainly, there are those who assert that Islamic Society throve during periods in which observance waned.

    Also, many of the supposed "accomplishments" of Islamic scholarship were actually the work of subjugated people in Muslim territories, or advances adopted from outsiders. "Arabic" Numerals are an excellent example, having originated in India.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The only reason why Islam is at this stage now is because it has turned from religion to a political movement. Political Islam is the danger.
    Traditional (mainstream) Islam allows for no separation of Religion and State. To the Traditionalist, all secular governments in Muslim territory are illegitimate. A large segment of that population is willing to replace them through extreme violence.

    In short, Islam is political.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    And yes, in the West. Christianity is all lovely and dandy but look in Africa where text is being looked at literally the same way the Qu'ran and hadiths is now by some Muslims. Intolerance is there, witch children in Africa. Christian parents killing children because they are witches, disabled children being shunned seen as a curse from God. Homosexuals too scared to show their face because it is seen as a sin. The west has been enlightened, but there are parts of this world where Christianity is implemented in the same barbaric way Islam is.

    No religion is immune from the stupidity and manipulation of human beings.
    This last is certainly true.

    But do take a moment to view the hospitals, schools and general improvements to life that Christian actions in the Third World provide as well.

    Also, note the Christian response to disasters anywhere to anyone, as opposed to the Muslim response to even largely Muslim disasters. The Christmas Tsunami record is most instructive in this regard.

    To summarize. All Religions are not created equal, by any means. Some are on the whole constructive, some on the whole distructive.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 07-26-09 at 05:12 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    To me, it's on par with the National Enquirer or Entertainment Tonight or Weekly, or whatever it is actually called. It's of very little consequence in terms of governance or of something of substance, but quite heavy with your average citizen.
    ​"No religion is true, but some religion, any religion, is politically necessary. Law and morality are insufficient for the large majority of men. Obedience to the law and to the morals are insufficient for making men happy. […]Law and morality are therefore in need of being supplemented by divine rewards and punishments."

  5. #55
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Why are you infatuated? Islam is extrordinarily conservative, while you say you are liberal.

    I would't think there would be much, if any common ground there.

    Unfortunately, being liberal isn't the only quality that makes up my personality. I am infatuated with all religions, really. I have a special infatuation with Islam, however. Whenever I buy books, or look up information I always find myself with something relating to the religion. I myself am not religious, but spiritual. In college I plan to study many things, mainly focusing on the study of religious anthropology.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  6. #56
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    I would most worry if he were a

    1. Mormon
    2. Muslim
    3. Hindu
    4. Eastern Orthodox


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  7. #57
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    I would most worry if he were a

    1. Mormon
    2. Muslim
    3. Hindu
    4. Eastern Orthodox
    I can understand dislike of Mormonism because many Americans think "different" or "weird" things are bad and I also understand disliking Islam because many Americans have yet to grow up and rid themselves of their "islamophobia." That's all ok and acceptable ...

    Not sure why you see Eastern Orthodox as a negative thing, but whatever.

    But why Hinduism? Why the most open and level-headed religion (well it's not even technically a religion, more like a way of life)? Did a Hindu person make fun of you and now you think all Hindus are like that? Are you adding to your "islamophobia" by creating "hinduphobia?" Or have you even left the country yet?
    Last edited by Cilogy; 07-26-09 at 09:59 PM.


  8. #58
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    I can understand dislike of Mormonism because many Americans think "different" or "weird" things are bad
    Wierd doesnt begin to define Mormons.

    d and I also understand disliking Islam because many Americans have yet to grow up and rid themselves of their "islamophobia." That's all ok and acceptable ...
    It has nothing to do with Islamafobia, just Islam doesnt have a good track record is all.



    But why Hinduism? Why the most open and level-headed religion (well it's not even technically a religion, more like a way of life)? Did a Hindu person make fun of you and now you think all Hindus are like that? Are you adding to your "islamophobia" by creating "hinduphobia?" Or have you even left the country yet?[/
    The whole caste system appears to be Undemocratic thats all, also the American Beef industry is one of the strongest in the world.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  9. #59
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    Wierd doesnt begin to define Mormons.
    That's fine, some people just accept it and move on. Some people, like you it seems, refuse to be open-minded. Its unfortunate, and its unfortunate that this kind of ignorance is accepted in the U.S., but it is accepted, that's ok.



    It has nothing to do with Islamafobia, just Islam doesnt have a good track record is all.
    That's ok too. A lot of religions don't have a good track record, yet somehow many people overlook it and criticize other religions for the same thing. Unfortunately, even that kind of ignorance is accepted in the U.S., but its okay you'll get over it ... maybe.



    The whole caste system appears to be Undemocratic thats all, also the American Beef industry is one of the strongest in the world.
    The caste system is often considered accepted, just as hating muslims, mormons, atheists, etc. is accepted in the U.S. So, it doesn't make sense for you to condemn the above two cultures while condemning social class and religious discrimination. It just doesn't mate .

    I would say that the religion believes in the caste system less than actual Indian society does. So essentially, you are attacking the Indian system of government rather than the religion.

    The caste system is something that not all Hindus believe in. What you are doing is kind of like saying "Oh, these Christians are undemocratic, therefore all of Christianity is bad." That's extremely narrowminded, you need a huge shovel to get you out of that tunnel my friend.
    Last edited by Cilogy; 07-26-09 at 10:28 PM.


  10. #60
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    Re: So what if Obama is Muslim?

    That's fine, some people just accept it and move on.
    I accept it,I dont want to lock them up in camps or anything, but wouldnt want a President who is wacky like that.


    Some people, like you it seems, refuse to be open-minded. Its unfortunate, and its unfortunate that this kind of ignorance is accepted in the U.S., but it is accepted, that's ok.
    Why should I be open minded to a President who believes Jesus was a space alien and that Native Americans are really Jews. I am open minded in the regards that they can practice any lunacy they want as long as it doesnt affect me.


    That's ok too. A lot of religions don't have a good track record, yet somehow many people overlook it and criticize other religions for the same thing. Unfortunately, even that kind of ignorance is accepted in the U.S., but its okay you'll get over it ... maybe.
    Are insults part of being open minded? If so then your doing a good job of it. In any case Islam is dangerous and this is backed up by the situation in nearly all Muslim nations. So I wouldnt want that here, at least with the other religions we know what to expect.


    The caste system is often considered accepted, just as hating muslims, mormons, atheists, etc. is accepted in the U.S. So, it doesn't make sense for you to condemn the above two cultures while condemning social class and religious discrimination. It just doesn't mate .
    Mate, dont put words in my mouth. Where have I said I hate anyone? My my isnt it your bedtime yet?

    I would say that the religion believes in the caste system less than actual Indian society does. So essentially, you are attacking the Indian system of government rather than the religion.
    Do you know anything about Hinduism?

    The caste system is something that not all Hindus believe in.
    Are you really so ignorant?


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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