View Poll Results: What's your opinion of Affirmative Action in the college admissions process?

Voters
66. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm in favor of affirmative action.

    9 13.64%
  • I don't think it should be used for criteria.

    52 78.79%
  • I have no opinion.

    1 1.52%
  • Other (please explain)

    4 6.06%
Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 127

Thread: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

  1. #81
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,863
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Poverty, prejudice, etc.
    I can understand poverty. It is often assumed that those that live in poverty are not as smart as those that are rich. Not to mention the rich can often have "connections" which may help a school or company.

    But prejudice? Sorry but don't buy it. At least not completely. I'm not trying to say that there isn't prejudice. Just that it's not near as much of a factor as people keep trying to say. And you have to remember that prejudice comes from both directions. Not just whites.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    By no means is race a perfect proxy for these things, but it's not a terrible one either. I would like to see an AA system based more on class and background, but race is still an important component.
    Yes it is a terrible one. For the simple fact that it creates more racism. I've talked to a few whites that turned racist because they were denied one too many jobs just because someone of color was hired, even though they had better resume's than the person of color.

    Basing it off of class can be just as detrimental as it can cause hard feelings between the poor and the rich. And I think that there is enough hard feelings between those two right now without having to add more too it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Which doesn't change the fact that many black patients feel more comfortable with black doctors, like individuals of all races do. Having an increased supply of black doctors increases health outcomes among that group.
    Why exactly do they feel more comfortable? Do you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Who said they have to?
    AA does. Or at least the way people use AA. If a black person applies for a school or company that happens to be totally white what happens if they are denied? A charge of racism. Even if their race had absolutely nothing to do with the reason for them being denied a position. That costs the company or school money. Even if they are found innocent it still costs them money. Name me one school or company that doesn't mind loosing money for no real reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Are you under the assumption that schools use AA because the government is forcing them to?
    Yes, and no. Yes because AA is a government law. No because of what I just explained in my last paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Trust me, they're boring.

    The point is that any homogenous group is relatively limited in its perspectives.
    Says who? Each and everyone of those people can have very different lives. Different perspectives. Different thoughts. You are trying to make it sound as if they would all have the same perspective. They wouldn't. Unless you are trying to say that just because your black you will have a different perspective than someone that is white.

    If that is the case then lets examine this scenario. Got two people. One white. One black. They both grow up in the same neighborhood. Same schooling giving by not only schools but also from parents. Parents make same amount of money. They both have reletively the same experiances and same opportunities.

    How does race play a factor here?

    In either case you are not getting the point. Everyone has a difference of opinion on what is interesting and what is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Again, nobody forces these schools to do anything. This is a pretty important point.
    Again yes somebody does. Look above to the appropriate paragraph where I already explained this.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't know what you're trying to say. You're right that people will learn their whole life, but it's important to start early.
    And people do learn early. It's kind of hard to not hear about racial issues through out your childhood. Particularly in k-12 grades. The great thing about public school is that it is already diverse because a public school has to accept anyone in their district. And I don't know of a single district that doesn't have diversity in their school system. But we are talking about college admissions. Not grades k-12. By the time they get into college they already have had diverse dealings for much of their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Again, you're operating from the assumption that people benefitting from AA are not working hard already and are just having things handed to them.
    No actually I'm not. The difference here is that one is based on a persons acedemics. The other is based on a persons skin color. They could both have worked just as hard as the other. But due to differing grades one is accepted while the other is not. In the case of the AA student he was accepted because of his skin color. Despite his grades not being as good as the white persons. Despite them both working just as hard as the other. Can you honestly tell me that someone with a 3.5 GPA should be accepted over someone with a 4.0 GPA? Because that is exactly what happens with AA.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This may come as a surprise, but AA is not as huge of a boost as one might think. The average black student getting into Harvard Med School with an AA boost is not a moron. They busted their ass and would have gotten into a good med school (if not Harvard) even without the boost.
    Without AA the black person would have gotten into a good med school yes. But if his GPA was not up to Harvards standards then why should AA get him into Harvard over someone who had a better GPA? Again even if they worked just as hard (or even harder) as the person with the better GPA.

    That is the problem with AA. It gets people into positions that they normally would not have gotten. All because of their skin color. It doesn't really matter how often it happens. It does matter that it happens at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not an assumption, it's a reality.
    The authors took the content of 500 real resumes off online job boards and then evaluated them, as objectively as possible, for quality, using such factors as education and experience. Then they replaced the names with made-up names picked to "sound white" or "sound black" and responded to 1,300 job ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune last year.

    Previous studies have examined how employers responded to similarly qualified applicants they meet in person, but this experiment attempted to isolate the response to the name itself.

    White names got about one callback per 10 resumes; black names got one per 15. Carries and Kristens had call-back rates of more than 13 percent, but Aisha, Keisha and Tamika got 2.2 percent, 3.8 percent and 5.4 percent, respectively. And having a higher quality resume, featuring more skills and experience, made a white-sounding name 30 percent more likely to elicit a callback, but only 9 percent more likely for black-sounding names.
    Sorry but I'm going to have to reject this study. They said that they had 500 applications yet sent those applications to 1300 different jobs. Because of this you have no idea how or who they sent those applications to. Did they send all applications to each of the 1300 jobs? You have no idea if they only sent applications to the appropriate job that those particular skills applied to. You have no idea if someone else was already hired for the job by the time said application was sent in. You have no idea if there was a better application sent in. You have no idea if the employer was just waiting to review said application. You have no idea how long they waited before the people doing this study waited before they decided that the employer wasn't going to call.

    In essence there are too many variables to accurately tell if this study is accurate or not. Now if you had the original study then we might beable to decern some of the answers.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  2. #82
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,863
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    For all the reasons we've been discussing for the past 100 posts.
    To promote diversity? Again why shouldn't someones GPA, resume and ethics be a factor instead of a persons skin color?

    People have been pounding the whole "we are all human" and "we are all equal" into peoples heads for over 60 years now. (just going back to the Jim Crowe laws though it certainly goes back farther) Do you really think that people don't get it by now? Heck the very fact that we have a black president should show that race is not near the factor (particularly among whites) that people are still claiming that there is. Sorry but the fact that Obama became president has blown alot of the racist and prejudiced talking points out the window. Weather you acknowledge that or not.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  3. #83
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    You can't solve racism by being racist. There was a time when affirmative action of some sort might have been worthwhile. Today when we have a black president, it no longer is. Everyone ought to get into college on their own educational merits and nothing else. Any college, like any business, that is found to be weighting admissions on skin color should be heavily fined and those responsible ought to spend time behind bars for discriminatory practices.

    That includes people who want to admit more blacks as much as those who want to admit more whites.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  4. #84
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    I'm in favor of affirmative action in areas where there is clearly a small minority of people. I don't care what people say... in any area where one ethnic group is very small and the other is very large, the majority group will tend to favor its own kind. I'm especially in favor of affirmative action for aboriginal North Americans whose ancestry were displaced by our colonization. They still have disadvantages, even today.

    What I'm against is abuse of affirmative action in areas where, for example, most of the population is black. It has a counter-balancing effect where minority whites get left out by virtue of black favoritism.

    So... basically, I don't believe affirmative action is useless across the board. In some regions it can be applied usefully.

  5. #85
    Educator a777pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Flower Mound, in the basement
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 08:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    815

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    Are you in favor of it or do you disagree with it?

    I think when public schools use this it violates the Civil Rights Act of 1964, more specifically Title II and Title IV and when it comes to private schools I just think it's wrong.

    A number of years back the California Legislature debated the idea of making entry into the California University system based on merit alone. A strange thing happened. A coalition of Latinos, blacks and whites defeated that effort. Their reason: If only merit, i.e., grades were used for entry into the California University system, it was estimated that over 55% of the students would be Asian. We can't have that now, can we?
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

  6. #86
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And if individual employers back in the 20's had wanted to hire celtic people because they thought they had been treated unjustly and were capable of adding value in the workplace despite the fact that they might have not had as strong skills on paper, I'm sure your ancestors would have been incredibly offended and would have accused the employers of being racist.
    No, my ancestors weren't whiny, and yes, the irish were denied jobs in America merely because they were Irish. So, no, your attempt at moral equivalency and rabid straw-dog-ism failed massively.

  7. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    True, but all politics is that way. That inherently doesn't make it right or wrong.
    No, racism is inherently wrong. That politicians use it to buy votes makes it doubly wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Just because SS is a good idea,
    Socialist Security isn't a just a good idea. It's a PONZI SCHEME.

    [quote=nerv14;1058158121]and politicians should be awarded for supporing that,[quote]

    Politicians should be shot for introducing such violations of human liberty into legislative debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    another reason for a politicans to protect SS it is still because it gives them elderly support.
    You mean they're buying votes with my money.

    You can say "buying votes", can't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Supporing economic AA would of course gain poor votes (many of them who are minorities). It would at least make more sense to the people that it wasn't benefiting though.
    You mean like to the people being denied jobs and college enrollments because they're good enough to do the job or complete the course and the people taking their place aren't? Yes, that will certainly make perfect sense to them, won't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    And I agree that racial AA violated the Fourteenth Amendment.
    Ergo, affirmative action is unconstitutional. Come, you have to bring the ideas and thoughts to completion or you'll never free yourself of that awful liberalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    It can be argued otherwise,
    Only by people who are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    but i don't believe that my form of AA would be a simillar violation for state schools.
    Racism is racism is racism, and all institutionalized governmental accepted racism violates the Fourteenth Amendment.

  8. #88
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    thats a good point, but immigrants from Europe normally had more education (proportional to normal Americans) then immigration from Latin Americas.
    My immigrant forebears dug the Erie Canal. How much book learning did that take?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Even though I disagree with the idea that people should overcome all social obstacles themselves without government help, if people did do that... then America would be a much better place.
    People being responsible for their own actions and their own future without government interference is the foundation of the United States. If you disagree with that, can you do us a favor and move to a country that's more in line with what you do like?

  9. #89
    Professor
    OxymoronP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Heart in Brooklyn, body South of Dixie
    Last Seen
    08-23-10 @ 11:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,175

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    it was estimated that over 55% of the students would be Asian. We can't have that now, can we?
    And Jewish.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  10. #90
    Educator a777pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Flower Mound, in the basement
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 08:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    815

    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    And Jewish.

    That was never brought up/mentioned in the reports/news stories that I read. It might be that "Jewish" is not a race.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •