View Poll Results: What's your opinion of Affirmative Action in the college admissions process?

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  • I'm in favor of affirmative action.

    9 13.64%
  • I don't think it should be used for criteria.

    52 78.79%
  • I have no opinion.

    1 1.52%
  • Other (please explain)

    4 6.06%
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Thread: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

  1. #121
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Really? Then why don't I recieve a check?
    We have already gone through this, because you are not, i repeat, are not unemployed.

    Going by what you are saying you would be correct. But what you are saying to begin with is incorrect. Therefore your conclussions will be incorrect.
    Quite a slippery slope.

    Income is just part of the correlating determinant. Not all of it. If a race is more prone to gang life then it will affect the numbers of employed (or unemployed) people when compared to others.
    You are essentially stating that gang affiliation is not only based on race, but it somehow determines employment? How can this be when gang members are neither considered unemployed or employed (assuming they are not already working jobs)?

    Whites make up around 74% of the population of the US. Yet only make up 13% of gangs. Hispanics make up around 13% of the total population of the US. Yet make up 47% gangs. Common sense should be enough to figure out the obvious here.
    So, 300 million * (.74) = around 220 million. 13% of 220 million > 47% of 40 million ((300 million * (.13)). Nice try
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    We have already gone through this, because you are not, i repeat, are not unemployed.
    Then explain why I do not have a check coming in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You are essentially stating that gang affiliation is not only based on race, but it somehow determines employment? How can this be when gang members are neither considered unemployed or employed (assuming they are not already working jobs)?
    Gangs are based on race. Have you ever heard of a gang that was diverse? And yes it would effect unemployment numbers. Weather you realize it or not there are lots of determining factors in any statistic. Not just one or two things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    So, 300 million * (.74) = around 220 million. 13% of 220 million > 47% of 40 million ((300 million * (.13)). Nice try
    Only problem with this. And you would know it if you had read the link that I gave is that there are an estimated total of 24,500 gangs in 2000 where total estimated gang members had exceeded 750,000. IE less than 800,000 people out of 300 million constitute gang members. Your figures are incorrect.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I did say that there was prejudice out there...just that it is not near a factor as everyone is claiming.
    And I'm saying that you have absolutely no basis for this statement other than what you yourself have perceived.

    And alot of people know the reason that they didn't get the job.
    Yes, because most employers will definitely tell you that they would have just loved to hire you, but they had to hire some black guy instead.

    And that some how makes it right or better? If one is wrong then so is the other.
    No, it's not.

    So you're saying that a person that has always lived in the country goes to visit a doctor that has always lived in a city will have a "shared background"? Sorry but I don't see any shared background. City folks and country folks act totally different from each other. And it doesn't matter about the issues because all doctor's are taught the same basic things. An issue of avian flu is the same issue no matter where you are.
    I don't know what you're trying to say here. One of the most common things about human nature is that it is easier to deal with someone who is like you in some way, whether it's background, age, gender, class, race, favorite sport, etc.

    I oppose it because of that yes.
    But it doesn't generally lead to that in practice, anywhere near as much as you seem to imply.

    Neither of those things requires that colleges implement affirmative action programs.

    Plenty of schools don't use AA, and plenty of states have even banned the use of AA in college admissions.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_209]California Proposition 209 (1996) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Civil_Rights_Initiative]Michigan Civil Rights Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebrask...itiative_(2008)

    Any business (which a college is) that uses federal funding (which alot do) must follow AA.
    No, see above.

    Thanks to my folks moving around alot while I was a kid I've had the opportunity to be in A LOT of different schools. Yes there were schools that did not have a lot of diversity. But they were in the very small minority.
    How often have you moved in your life? I ask because someone that has lived in the same area for all their life would not have a very broad perspective of what is normal for school diversity.
    Again, your own personal experience is not a substitute for facts.

    http://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.e...l_mlk_2009.pdf

    *40% of black and latino students attend a public high school that is 90-100% minorities.

    *Although whites are only 56% of students nationwide, the average white student attends a school that is 77% white.

    *54% of white students in suburban areas attend schools that are 80-100% white. 55% of white students in rural areas attend schools that are 90-100% white.

    What other difference would matter for getting into a college?
    If you think a person's value to a campus and a classroom can be entirely encapsulated by their GPA, you've missed the point of this whole thread.

    Really? What do you think would happen to them if they decided that they wanted all whites in their school and proceeded to kick everyone that wasn't white out?
    That would be a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and would be an inapt analogy for what we're talking about.

    Wanting diversity and it being forced on you is two different things.
    Who is forcing diversity on you?

    This is the only area of life that we are discussing atm.
    My point is that it can't be fixed elsewhere, so it's not likely to be fixed here.

    What did you want another study disputing it? There are plenty of ways to refute what is said in a study. And I provided one of them. Without knowing how they conducted their study there is no way to tell if the study is accurate. Until it is shown to be accurate it may be dismissed. Which means that the questions that I asked must be answered. Can you answer the questions that I asked? If you can't then how can you accept the study as accurate and not twisted to show a particular result? That is the problem with those types of studies. They can be purposely twisted to show a particular result..even if the one doing the twisting isn't meaning to. In order for such a study to be valid it must consider all possiblities and show that they factored those in.
    My point is that your criticisms were not actual statistical criticisms, but rather your own opinion on why the study could have been flawed.

    If you really don't believe that this happens, try doing some more research:

    Study Shows How Deeply Black Men Face Discrimination In Hiring

    A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.

    A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

    Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

    If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.
    Racial Bias Seen in Hiring of Waiters - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com

    Expensive restaurants in New York discriminate based on race when hiring waiters, a new study has concluded. The study was based on experiments in which pairs of applicants with similar résumés were sent to ask about jobs. The pairs were matched for gender and appearance, said Marc Bendick Jr., the economist who conducted the study. The only difference was race, he said.

    White job applicants were more likely to receive followup interviews at the restaurants, be offered jobs, and given information about jobs, and their work histories were less likely to be investigated in detail, he said Tuesday. He spoke at a news conference releasing the report in a Manhattan restaurant.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #124
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    I'm against, the only thing that matters is personal merit. Race defines a persons physical attributes, therefore it's irrelevant when judging academic merit. Discriminating based on gender, religion, and race are in fact illegal, it never says discrimination is okay if it's in the favor of the minority.

  5. #125
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    RightinNYC, I'm afraid that we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #126
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Let’s fight racism with racism, brilliant!
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  7. #127
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    Re: Affirmative Action (in college admissions): Good idea or Bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    Let’s fight racism with racism, brilliant!
    Good job on ignoring all the nuances of a complex issue and summarizing your thoughts with a ridiculous soundbyte.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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