View Poll Results: Do you support school vouchers for public school children to attend private schools?

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46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. I generally support any voucher program.

    21 45.65%
  • Yes, but only if the funds come from private programs, not government.

    3 6.52%
  • Yes, but only if the students are smart enough.

    3 6.52%
  • Yes, if the conditions under options 2 AND 3 are met.

    2 4.35%
  • No. I generally do not support any voucher program.

    17 36.96%
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Thread: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/grammar)

  1. #31
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You were educated and someone paid for you education regardless if you went to public or private school.If a school is failing why should you pay for that failing school?Since it is in the best interest of the child why not have vouchers which in a sense do not force the parents to waste money on a failing school? The money is being used for the same service,its not like we said hey lets take that money and used it for something completely different.
    It is in the best interest of the child to fix the public school. In the case a failing public school a voucher program might help some students but it will abandon many others. Those abandoned students are the ones we will most likely be supporting later.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Do you buy groceries,clothes, and other things? Do you think those things were carried on foot to the stores you shop at?
    Of course the roads were used to bring these necessary things. The public schools were also used to educate the people who made and transported these items. That is my point. As a society we are benefit or suffer according to how the next generation is educated.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    It is in the best interest of the child to fix the public school. In the case a failing public school a voucher program might help some students but it will abandon many others. Those abandoned students are the ones we will most likely be supporting later.
    Vouchers don't have to abandon anyone. I would support allowing ALL students to use vouchers, instead of just a select few.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Vouchers don't have to abandon anyone. I would support allowing ALL students to use vouchers, instead of just a select few.
    Here are the reasons that won't work:
    1. Unless the voucher was for enough money to pay for any private school including books, school supplies, uniform, etc., (which I don't think is the intention) some students will not be able to afford a private school.

    2. Going to private school requires some sort of application process. Sometimes this process can be quite extensive. Sadly, there are parents who would not go to the trouble so those children will remain in public schools.

    3. Private schools have the luxury to reject students who have learning or behavior problems (hence their higher test scores). Most of these students will remain in the public schools.

    4. Private schools are also able to reject students to keep their class sizes small. What happens when all the private schools in the area are full?
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    You were asked for a proof.

    Technically, a question cannot be presented as a proof.

    I say this to help you avoid future embarrassment.
    I'm not embarrassed at all. If you are being intellectually honest you would see that the ones carrying the banner for vouchers are the right-wing evangelicals and other christian based schools. That alone should tell you something about the honest and true motivation.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #35
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You were educated and someone paid for you education regardless if you went to public or private school.If a school is failing why should you pay for that failing school?Since it is in the best interest of the child why not have vouchers which in a sense do not force the parents to waste money on a failing school? The money is being used for the same service,its not like we said hey lets take that money and used it for something completely different.


    Do you buy groceries,clothes, and other things? Do you think those things were carried on foot to the stores you shop at?
    Since I don't have children, Can I stop supporting the school system with my taxes?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #36
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    The only way I would support vouchers is under the following circumstances: Any school that accepted them would be required to accept all students who applied on a first come, first serve, basis. Alternatively, schools could opt for an entirely random acceptance process, facilitated by a government agency charged with performing the task. The schools should also not be allowed to charge any additional money aside from the voucher. Finally, 'public' schools should also be required to entirely fund their operations from vouchers.

    This way, the private schools would be forced to address the very same problems that public schools are forced to endure. It would also be harder to segregate students based on economic stature. The requirement that public schools would also have to fund their operations with the same mechanism would help ensure that government would fully fund the voucher system.

    Only under these circumstances would the competition be most fairly played: Schools would be forced to all deal with the same problems, overcome them, and still provide a quality education.

    In turn, I would have no problem allowing parents to choose religious schools that teach adequate skills in science, and the ability to think scientifically. If they also want to teach them how to ignore such solid thinking in favor of believing what people say (or write) without any evidence whatsoever, have at it. If the science is truly taught well, it will win out.

    Of course, if any school didn't like these conditions, they would be welcome to reject them and go about their business of charging whatever they like, teaching whatever they like, and accepting/rejecting whoever they like. They would just have to do it without public money.

  7. #37
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Our kids are the dumbest in the industrialized West because the leftists have had control over the education system for a very very long time. Teacher's unions have essentially destroyed the ed system in this country.

    Liberalism is a mental disorder and it is killing this country.

    So yes, I support school choice.

  8. #38
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    This seems like quite a stretch for me, or anyone, to believe. Do you have any proof of your accusation?
    These quotes, typical religious right rhetoric, give some indication.

    Quotes about Public Schools by The Religious Right

    Our purpose must be to spread the gospel on the new mission field that the Lord has opened--public high schools....Yes, the so-called `wall of separation' between church and state has begun to crumble." -- Jay Alan Sekulow, American Center for Law and Justice, CASEBulletin, July, 1990

    "One day, I hope in the next ten years, I trust that we will have more Christian day schools than there are public schools. I hope I will live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken over them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" -- Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979

    "The Supreme Court of the supposedly Christian United States guaranteed the moral collapse of this nation when it forbade children in the public schools to pray to the God of Jacob, to learn of His moral law or even view in their classrooms the heart of the law, the Ten Commandments, which children must obey for their own good or disobey at their peril." -- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, 1991

    "The public school system is damned. Let me tell you how radical I am. Christian students should be in Christian schools. If you have to sell your car, live in a smaller house, or work a night job, put your child in Christian schools. If you can't afford it homeschool." -- Jerry Falwell, "Trends in Christian Higher Education," Regent University, 9/22/93

    "[I]f Christians are charged with exercising dominion in all spheres of life (Gen. 2:26-28), to abandon public education to Satan is to compromise our calling. The attitude and approach of Christians should be that they never expose their children to public education, but that they should work increasingly to expose public education to the claims of Christ. Certain specially suited Christians, in fact, should pray and work tirelessly to obtain teaching and school board and even administrative posts within public education. The penultimate goal of these Christians should be the privatization of these larcenous institutions, and the ultimate aim the bringing of them under the authority of Christ and His word." -- Rev. Andrew Sandlin, Chalcedon Report, March, 1994

    "The Christian community has a golden opportunity to train an army of dedicated teachers who can invade the public school classrooms and use them to influence the nation for Christ." -- D. James Kennedy, "Education: Public Problems and Private Solutions," Coral Ridge Ministries, 1993

    "We are a great threat to public schools. We may have to get rid of them." -- Robert Simonds, CEE, speech, 3/6/93, Glen Mills, PA

    "Those who control the access to the minds of children will set the agenda for the future of the nation and the future of the western world." -- James Dobson, quoted in PFAW's FOF
    "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."
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  9. #39
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by galenrox View Post
    Yes, I support vouchers, because I went to school and so I learned about the theory of evolution. Progress comes through the combination of variation and selection, any other progress is dependent upon the people in place to make the decisions making all of the right decisions all of the time (which experience shows that this is almost always an unreasonable expectation). You get better schools through allowing choice.
    There is no evidence for this.

    And the argument that through funding religious education is absurd. Whether or not parents want their kids' education to be religious is a matter of personal freedom, and our decision to subsidize education cannot undermine that freedom due to the free exercise clause. It's much harder to argue that school vouchers violates the establishment clause than it is to argue that public schools without any means of school choice violates the free exercise clause (primarily because the current system does violate the free exercise clause and a system of school vouchers does not violate the establishment clause).
    If we accept that argument as valid, then the stimulus was unconstitutional because people could potentially donate their tax refunds to churches.
    Public education does nothing to interfere with parents choosing religious schools, they are perfectly free to do so, but they should not expect to have it paid for with public funding. All people DO have the choice of religious schools.
    "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."
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  10. #40
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    Re: Are you in favor of vouchers for children to attend private schools? (high/gramma

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    The only way I would support vouchers is under the following circumstances: Any school that accepted them would be required to accept all students who applied on a first come, first serve, basis. Alternatively, schools could opt for an entirely random acceptance process, facilitated by a government agency charged with performing the task. The schools should also not be allowed to charge any additional money aside from the voucher. Finally, 'public' schools should also be required to entirely fund their operations from vouchers.
    Would that include juvenile delinquents that cause a lot of problems in the government schools? What about the schools that use a particular philosophy like the Montessori, or schools that have a stronger emphasis on the liberal arts, or those who are gender specific. And what would a government instituted placement would put on those types? the idea both the government schools and the private schools only use voucher money seems fair though the funding for the government schools are a bit more complex so i do not know if that would be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    This way, the private schools would be forced to address the very same problems that public schools are forced to endure. It would also be harder to segregate students based on economic stature. The requirement that public schools would also have to fund their operations with the same mechanism would help ensure that government would fully fund the voucher system.
    Do you mean unfunded mandates by the Federal and State governments? Or the Teachers Unions that go well beyond their proper purpose of representing the teachers interest in getting compensated for their work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Only under these circumstances would the competition be most fairly played: Schools would be forced to all deal with the same problems, overcome them, and still provide a quality education.
    How about having the private schools attend the students specific strengths and needs? How about a boot camp style for those trouble makers mentioned earlier and a fine arts based school with those students with that particular strength? The idea is not to simply make a private based copy of the government schools but to find better solutions and more importantly more specific solutions for students as individuals and not a one size fits all format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    In turn, I would have no problem allowing parents to choose religious schools that teach adequate skills in science, and the ability to think scientifically. If they also want to teach them how to ignore such solid thinking in favor of believing what people say (or write) without any evidence whatsoever, have at it. If the science is truly taught well, it will win out.
    The educational requirement of teaching science for the voucher sound good but in general the government schools do a poor job of doing so. Science is not a bunch of facts but a process in getting information and they most certainly do not teach that well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Of course, if any school didn't like these conditions, they would be welcome to reject them and go about their business of charging whatever they like, teaching whatever they like, and accepting/rejecting whoever they like. They would just have to do it without public money.
    In other words the private school would have to be a near clone to the government school to be acceptable. The government school system is a failure in general and you want to continue the confiscation thru tax to continue it. The time has come to try something else a voucher system would be a good compromise to a only government solution to one with only private or religious schools.

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