View Poll Results: Do you think this is a good idea?

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Thread: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

  1. #1
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    ---------------
    I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

    Given:
    -FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
    -There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
    Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

    The Plan:
    Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

    BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

    Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


    Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

    Question:
    Do you think this is a good idea?
    Why/why not?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-23-09 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    I think that, in a perfect world, health care should be right along side of military protection, police protection, and firefighting services. In none of those cases should a person's income restrict their access to essential, life saving services. We live in the real world, however, and in order to institute socialized medicine we would have to completely reinvent health care in America, which I have zero faith in the ability of the federal government to do.

  3. #3
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Given:
    -FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
    -There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
    Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.
    This is a bad idea, because of the 300M people, less than half actually paid any taxes. You're giving $2275 of tax dollars to someone who didn't pay them in the first place.

    Give the money back to taxpayers only and your idea is somewhat attractive.

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    This is a bad idea, because of the 300M people, less than half actually paid any taxes. You're giving $2275 of tax dollars to someone who didn't pay them in the first place.

    Give the money back to taxpayers only and your idea is somewhat attractive.
    On principle, I fully agree. However...

    It then doesnt cover everyone.
    The idea is to create a better plan to compete with The Obama's plan that covers everyone.

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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I think that, in a perfect world, health care should be right along side of military protection, police protection, and firefighting services. In none of those cases should a person's income restrict their access to essential, life saving services. We live in the real world, however, and in order to institute socialized medicine we would have to completely reinvent health care in America, which I have zero faith in the ability of the federal government to do.
    Not sure how this addresses the question...

    If yur standard is that "health care should be a right" and "a person's income [should not] restrict their access", it seems that this plan does what you want it to do.

  6. #6
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure how this addresses the question...

    If yur standard is that "health care should be a right"
    I said it should be "right along side military..." not that it should be a right. None of those are rights and health care shouldn't be either

    and "a person's income [should not] restrict their access", it seems that this plan does what you want it to do.
    I wasn't addressing the plan - just that third sentence. As for the plan, I don't think it would do much good. When my sister was out of college and looking for a job she (well, our parents) had to straight up purchase health insurance and it was costing her >$400/month. Your plan would severely dilute medicare/medicaid's effectiveness for those who are already on it by distributing the exact same amount of money across all citizens and would not provide sufficient resources to the people who start receiving assistance. Shifting around money we're already spending isn't health care reform

  7. #7
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    ---------------
    I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

    Given:
    -FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
    -There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
    Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

    The Plan:
    Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

    BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

    Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


    Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

    Question:
    Do you think this is a good idea?
    Why/why not?
    I don't have health care myself so I really don't know the numbers. Will $2275 afford a year's worth of private health insurance?

  8. #8
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I don't have health care myself so I really don't know the numbers. Will $2275 afford a year's worth of private health insurance?
    I searched several on-line quote sites yesterday.
    There were numerous plans that would cover an individual for that much - indeed, most of them were much less - and I found that as the number of people went up, the cost/person went down.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-23-09 at 11:12 AM.

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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I said it should be "right along side military..." not that it should be a right. None of those are rights and health care shouldn't be either
    No offense, but you arent following the directions in the OP.

    As for the plan, I don't think it would do much good. When my sister was out of college and looking for a job she (well, our parents) had to straight up purchase health insurance and it was costing her >$400/month.
    That's odd. When I did my search, I found many plans for single college-age women for a lot, lot lot less.

    Your plan would severely dilute medicare/medicaid's effectiveness for those who are already on it
    It would allow these people to get off Medicare/medicaid and supply their own insurance instead - should they choose to do so.
    Medicare/Medicaid would go away entirely as they would no longer be necessary.

    Shifting around money we're already spending isn't health care reform
    The issue isn't "reform" its "covering everyone".
    The plan posted here does that, w/o spending a dime we arent already spending.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-23-09 at 11:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No offense, but you arent following the directions in the OP.
    Sure I was

    If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    That's odd. When I did my search, I found many plans for single college-age women for a lot, lot lot less.
    She has a couple of (fairly common) pre-existing conditions and takes a handful of meds. I'm sure that plans exist that are cheaper than what was available to her, but in order to get adequate coverage it cost her a pretty penny


    It would allow these people to get off Medicare/medicaid and supply their own insurance instead - should they choose to do so.
    Medicare/Medicaid would go away entirely as they would no longer be necessary.
    Many people on those plans are those who get flat out denied for private coverage or for whom private coverage is too expensive. If they were to be thrown into the free market they would not have access to medical care

    The issue isn't "reform" its "covering everyone".
    The plan posted here does that, w/o spending a dime we arent already spending.
    Yes, and without reform I don't think it's possible to get everyone covered. If you take a middle aged smoker with AIDs, give him two grand and tell him to go find private coverage he will come up wanting.

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