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Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

Do you think this is a good idea?

  • Not sure...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Goobieman

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This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
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I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

Given:
-FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
-There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

The Plan:
Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences – you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

Question:
Do you think this is a good idea?
Why/why not?
 
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This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.

I think that, in a perfect world, health care should be right along side of military protection, police protection, and firefighting services. In none of those cases should a person's income restrict their access to essential, life saving services. We live in the real world, however, and in order to institute socialized medicine we would have to completely reinvent health care in America, which I have zero faith in the ability of the federal government to do.
 
Given:
-FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
-There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.
This is a bad idea, because of the 300M people, less than half actually paid any taxes. You're giving $2275 of tax dollars to someone who didn't pay them in the first place.

Give the money back to taxpayers only and your idea is somewhat attractive.
 
This is a bad idea, because of the 300M people, less than half actually paid any taxes. You're giving $2275 of tax dollars to someone who didn't pay them in the first place.

Give the money back to taxpayers only and your idea is somewhat attractive.
On principle, I fully agree. However...

It then doesnt cover everyone.
The idea is to create a better plan to compete with The Obama's plan that covers everyone.
 
I think that, in a perfect world, health care should be right along side of military protection, police protection, and firefighting services. In none of those cases should a person's income restrict their access to essential, life saving services. We live in the real world, however, and in order to institute socialized medicine we would have to completely reinvent health care in America, which I have zero faith in the ability of the federal government to do.
Not sure how this addresses the question...

If yur standard is that "health care should be a right" and "a person's income [should not] restrict their access", it seems that this plan does what you want it to do.
 
Not sure how this addresses the question...

If yur standard is that "health care should be a right"

I said it should be "right along side military..." not that it should be a right. None of those are rights and health care shouldn't be either

and "a person's income [should not] restrict their access", it seems that this plan does what you want it to do.

I wasn't addressing the plan - just that third sentence. As for the plan, I don't think it would do much good. When my sister was out of college and looking for a job she (well, our parents) had to straight up purchase health insurance and it was costing her >$400/month. Your plan would severely dilute medicare/medicaid's effectiveness for those who are already on it by distributing the exact same amount of money across all citizens and would not provide sufficient resources to the people who start receiving assistance. Shifting around money we're already spending isn't health care reform
 
This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
---------------
I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

Given:
-FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
-There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

The Plan:
Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences – you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

Question:
Do you think this is a good idea?
Why/why not?

I don't have health care myself so I really don't know the numbers. Will $2275 afford a year's worth of private health insurance?
 
I don't have health care myself so I really don't know the numbers. Will $2275 afford a year's worth of private health insurance?
I searched several on-line quote sites yesterday.
There were numerous plans that would cover an individual for that much - indeed, most of them were much less - and I found that as the number of people went up, the cost/person went down.
 
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I said it should be "right along side military..." not that it should be a right. None of those are rights and health care shouldn't be either
No offense, but you arent following the directions in the OP.

As for the plan, I don't think it would do much good. When my sister was out of college and looking for a job she (well, our parents) had to straight up purchase health insurance and it was costing her >$400/month.
That's odd. When I did my search, I found many plans for single college-age women for a lot, lot lot less.

Your plan would severely dilute medicare/medicaid's effectiveness for those who are already on it
It would allow these people to get off Medicare/medicaid and supply their own insurance instead - should they choose to do so.
Medicare/Medicaid would go away entirely as they would no longer be necessary.

Shifting around money we're already spending isn't health care reform
The issue isn't "reform" its "covering everyone".
The plan posted here does that, w/o spending a dime we arent already spending.
 
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No offense, but you arent following the directions in the OP.

Sure I was

If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.

That's odd. When I did my search, I found many plans for single college-age women for a lot, lot lot less.

She has a couple of (fairly common) pre-existing conditions and takes a handful of meds. I'm sure that plans exist that are cheaper than what was available to her, but in order to get adequate coverage it cost her a pretty penny


It would allow these people to get off Medicare/medicaid and supply their own insurance instead - should they choose to do so.
Medicare/Medicaid would go away entirely as they would no longer be necessary.

Many people on those plans are those who get flat out denied for private coverage or for whom private coverage is too expensive. If they were to be thrown into the free market they would not have access to medical care

The issue isn't "reform" its "covering everyone".
The plan posted here does that, w/o spending a dime we arent already spending.

Yes, and without reform I don't think it's possible to get everyone covered. If you take a middle aged smoker with AIDs, give him two grand and tell him to go find private coverage he will come up wanting.
 
She has a couple of (fairly common) pre-existing conditions and takes a handful of meds. I'm sure that plans exist that are cheaper than what was available to her, but in order to get adequate coverage it cost her a pretty penny
Well, as I said -- I did a lot of looking and found a lot of plans. Even old people would be able to find coverage.

Many people on those plans are those who get flat out denied for private coverage or for whom private coverage is too expensive. If they were to be thrown into the free market they would not have access to medical care
As noted, and as found in The Obama plan, this plan will cover 98-99% of the people. As there is an accepted 1-2% lack of coverage in both plans, that the plan will not cover 100% isnt an argument against it any more than it is for The Obama's plan.

Yes, and without reform I don't think it's possible to get everyone covered. If you take a middle aged smoker with AIDs, give him two grand and tell him to go find private coverage he will come up wanting.
See above.
 
Well, as I said -- I did a lot of looking and found a lot of plans. Even old people would be able to find coverage.

She found a plan, just not for $200/month, in our area, that would accept her, and that would give her access to the care and meds she needs.

As noted, and as found in The Obama plan, this plan will cover 98-99% of the people. As there is an accepted 1-2% lack of coverage in both plans, that the plan will not cover 100% isnt an argument against it any more than it is for The Obama's plan.


See above.

I am not arguing in favor of the Obama plan. You put forth a plan, and I told you what I see as its weaknesses.
 
I am not arguing in favor of the Obama plan. You put forth a plan, and I told you what I see as its weaknesses.
Yes... and a small number of people not fully-covered is an accepted reality.
 
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Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that 98% of Americans would be able to find private insurance coverage with $2275/year?
 
Sure. You can do the same thing I did -- search the internet.
Health Insurance, Medical Insurance, Individual Health Insurance Quotes

Obviously, I did not search for every conceiveable demographic, but the many that I did all turned up coverage that fit.

You just linked me to a health insurace website's front page. How does that support the assertion that 98% of Americans can find private health insurance on $2275?

Did you make the 98% figure up? If not, where did it come from?
 
Our Federal Government has been unfairly knocked on their ability to economically dispense medical care... But, is there any real proof of this ?
IMO, its not bad at all at the VA..there could be improvements, of course...I do see too much "make work"...which is not necessarily a bad thing.
IMO, most medical care should be on a pay as you go basis, at least bypassing insurance 90%....or more.
People, doctors, hospitals mis-use, and abuse insurance
The medical practice does need to modernize.
A great many patients can do their own blood pressure, weight,ect....give the nurses more training, more responsibility.
Maybe, the VA could serve as a model for health care in the 21st century...
 
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Did you make the 98% figure up? If not, where did it come from?
 
Did you make the 98% figure up? If not, where did it come from?
I'm sorry -- I told you what I did.
You dont have to like iit, but if you do the same thing I did, I'll bet you'll come up with the same numbers.
 
So you came up with it yourself? I applaud your analytical work, determining that 98% of Americans can find private coverage on $2275/year is no small feat. Can you show us some of the calculation that went into it?
 
So you came up with it yourself? I applaud your analytical work, determining that 98% of Americans can find private coverage on $2275/year is no small feat. Can you show us some of the calculation that went into it?
I gave you the source of my information.
You can do the same thing I did and see if you come up with the same conclusion.
 
I gave you the source of my information.
You can do the same thing I did and see if you come up with the same conclusion.

I'm sorry but I do not have the time to research the percentage of Americans who can find private insurance on $2275 per year. Since you apparently have done so already, and arrived at a figure of 98%, would you please post the calculations that went into it?

Unless of course, you just pulled that number out of your ass.....
 
Just as soon as I see the calculations that went into your deduction that 98% of Americans can find private health coverage for $2275 a month. You've stated that you did the research, I don't see why its such a problem to post what you found and the calculations that resulted here

Or you could be honest and admit you made the figure up. It's not a big deal - just show me how you arrived at it or state that you made it up
 
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