View Poll Results: Do you think this is a good idea?

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  • Yes, this is a good idea, because...

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Thread: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

  1. #31
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    ---------------
    I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

    Given:
    -FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
    -There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
    Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

    The Plan:
    Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

    BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences – you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

    Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


    Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

    Question:
    Do you think this is a good idea?
    Why/why not?
    Bad idea. Not just because it contains the same inherent cruelty as the current American insurance industry (no approval/money/funding, no treatment) but because the foundation of a fully comprehensive national health service would be far more efficient and cost less per capita to fund. The UK NHS covers all medical expenses bar prescriptions (which cost around $8 maximum, and are free to children and the poor), and in doing so we spend less per capita than the US, while having better health outcomes in many areas.

    Not to mention the fact that we Brits have a higher life expectancy than than the US, which has the LOWEST life expectancy of all industrialised Western nations, and a lower life expectancy than Cuba, with cities like Detroit having infant mortality rates rivaling those of African cities. If a poorer nation like Cuba can provide adequate health care, there's no excuse for a wealthy nation like the US not to.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

  2. #32
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    Bad idea. Not just because it contains the same inherent cruelty as the current American insurance industry (no approval/money/funding, no treatment) but because the foundation of a fully comprehensive national health service would be far more efficient and cost less per capita to fund. The UK NHS covers all medical expenses bar prescriptions (which cost around $8 maximum, and are free to children and the poor), and in doing so we spend less per capita than the US, while having better health outcomes in many areas.

    Not to mention the fact that we Brits have a higher life expectancy than than the US, which has the LOWEST life expectancy of all industrialised Western nations, and a lower life expectancy than Cuba, with cities like Detroit having infant mortality rates rivaling those of African cities. If a poorer nation like Cuba can provide adequate health care, there's no excuse for a wealthy nation like the US not to.
    I couldn't agree more. Then again, I just got done watching Super Sized Me, and I think I now know yet another reason why Americans are so unhealthy.

    BTW I have lived in the UK and the US, and I was very impressed with the UK health care system.

  3. #33
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Slithering Rainbow View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Then again, I just got done watching Super Sized Me, and I think I now know yet another reason why Americans are so unhealthy.

    BTW I have lived in the UK and the US, and I was very impressed with the UK health care system.
    Oh my god, I've been to the US and I'm still shocked over how big fast food restaurants make their portions. I think a medium American fries is bigger than anything we get here, and the burgers were bigger than my face!

    Yep, we as a country cmplain onstantly abut the NHS, but that's because we value it, and we want to see improvements, not because we want a return to the bad old days American is currently going through.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

  4. #34
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is intended for liberals, just to reduce the number of "The Federal Government shoudln't be involved in health care" responses. While I agree, those responses aren't relevant in this particular case. If you are NOT a liberal and you are willing to accept as a given that the Federal government should provide health care to the masses, please feel free to post.
    ---------------
    I have a proposal for a comprehensive, nation-wide federal health care plan that will provide access to Health Care for all of the people of the United States. As with The Obama's plan, it may not fully cover people who are extreme examples, but it will take care of the same 98-99% of the populaton.

    Given:
    -FY2008, the Federal Gvmnt spent $682.1B for Medicare and Medicade.
    -There are ~300,000,000 peopel in the US
    Divide that $682.1B by 300M and you get ~$2275 per person.

    The Plan:
    Rather than spend the aforementioned money on Medicare/Medicad, re-allocate said money to that each person receives a yearly $2275 tax credit ($9100 for a family of 4) for use to purchase whatever sort of health care they believe best handles their needs. They can buy insurance, they can save the money to spend as they go, they can use it to take a trip to Hawaii, or whaever else they might choose.

    BUT.... the freedom to choose comes with the responsibility for your choices; if you choose poorly in your spending of that money, you then suffer the consequences – you will be responible for any and all health care bills you incur -- doctors and hospitals will no longer be forced to treat people that cannot pay (though they may choose to do so); any unpaid bills will be paid through the yearly credit.

    Anyone that cannot stand the thought of kids suffering becaise of their idiot parents can choose to contribute to charities or to the health care costs of the children, directly.


    Thus, without spending any more money than we already are, this plan will then make sure everyone has access to paid health care. It will also eliminate 2 huge federal programs as well as any and all red tape associated with them, and give people responsibility for themselves and their choices.

    Question:
    Do you think this is a good idea?
    Why/why not?
    Wait a minute. Goobieman and I ON THE SAME PAGE?!!! This must be a sign of the oncoming apocalypse. Your plan is very similar to mine. In my plan, US citizens have a 3 tier option: affordable government plan, paid for by taxes of those who opt for this plan only; private health care, with the person opting out of the government plan, hence not paying those taxes; paying for healthcare out of pocket, with this person, also opting out of the government plan and the taxes. Some of the corollaries to this plan are as follows:

    1) No illegal aliens are covered UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    2) Doctors and hospitals are not required to treat anyone without evidence of ability to pay, either through the government plan, private insurance, or out of pocket expense. They can choose to, but there is no requirement UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    3) Strong regulations of the insurance industry are enacted, including tort reform, elimination of utilization review (treatment is in the hands of the provider's only), and the ability to sue an insurance company for denying the use of benefits.

    Though my plan varies slightly from Goobieman's, it is in the ballpark, and I would not be opposed to what Goobie suggested, with a few modifications.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  5. #35
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    Oh my god, I've been to the US and I'm still shocked over how big fast food restaurants make their portions. I think a medium American fries is bigger than anything we get here, and the burgers were bigger than my face!
    You must have a very small face.
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    I want a Healthcare bill that covers as many people as possible. If that's really what this bill does then I support it.

  7. #37
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You must have a very small face.
    I wish. My face looks like Jupiter with freckles. But my god, the burgers in the US are nearing double the size of the burgers should at the British Burger King/MacDonalds franchises.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

  8. #38
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    Re: Question for liberals re: Federal Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post

    1) No illegal aliens are covered UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    2) Doctors and hospitals are not required to treat anyone without evidence of ability to pay, either through the government plan, private insurance, or out of pocket expense. They can choose to, but there is no requirement UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
    1) What about a child?
    2) What if someone comes in direly ill and their insurance card (government plan, or otherwise) cannot be located, or any ID? Should this person just be allowed to die? You said ANY circumstances, so, I had to ask.

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