View Poll Results: Should Congress create an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

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  • Yes

    20 39.22%
  • No

    22 43.14%
  • Yes, but it could never get passed.

    6 11.76%
  • I have no opinion.

    3 5.88%
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Thread: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

  1. #61
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And their government is very much willing to take advantage of their ignorance.

    More importantly, ignorant people are easily led and believe the lies of their government which tells them what's best for their government is best for them.

    Isn't it funny...the spoiled little brats from the Sixties who protested "the establishment" are the biggest pro-establishment hacks around now?
    Or maybe people just have different informed opinions. Just saying.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Businesses don't vote. And businessmen still pay taxes.
    Sure but If you are an owner or somehow a direct beneficiary of a business you are still receiving benefits from lobbying government.

    They will not be able to vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'd be more supportive of your plan if it didn't seem its main goal was to directly affect policy, as opposed to reasons of principle.
    It is about principle. I dislike how politicians lobby the people with promises of more benefits. Notice how I never said Republicans or Democrats.

    They both game the system to get more votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    How is it unethical? The politicians handle much more than taxes.
    When a person votes based on how much money or benefits the are receiving from government and not on the issues that is unethical.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    20 bucks enough?
    $1 is enough, it shows that you are more concerned with our country and its policies than getting more unearned benefits.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    One thing I want to point out to everyone who is against this idea because it will hurt the republicans is that McCain lost the popular vote by 7% while he lost the electoral college vote by around 35% so getting rid of the electoral college it would have helped the republicans.

  4. #64
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And their government is very much willing to take advantage of their ignorance.

    More importantly, ignorant people are easily led and believe the lies of their government which tells them what's best for their government is best for them.
    That is exactly the problem, easily led and easily distracted with bread and circuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Isn't it funny...the spoiled little brats from the Sixties who protested "the establishment" are the biggest pro-establishment hacks around now?
    It's quite ironic.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #65
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Well, like I said, it doesn't matter; the removal of the electoral college might constitute some kind of moral victory for populist types, but in terms of how the republican polity works, no function of our political system would actually change all that much.

    The electoral college in theory is supposed to protect against regional specific groups, whether a majority or minority, who are united in an interest which opposes the well-being of the republic in the long term (factionalism or its regional-specific variant, sectionalism). The actual explanation for how it does so is hard even for me to understand and cannot be easily communicated; it didn't work out well even in its own time which is why the 12th amendment overhauled the system, unsuccessfully to my mind since we ultimately had a Civil War anyway. The electoral college could never subvert factionalism or sectionalism, constants in every political system known to man and always present in the United States, as the federalists hoped; it is especially useless nowadays, when a universal media, highly developed transportation system, and mobile economy ensures that political ideologies are results of personality more than region. Simply put, liberals, moderates, and conservatives are lead all over the country, and while majorities exist everywhere, the electoral system provides a misleading estimate of where they are situated; some regions of New York State are very conservative, and put representatives in state legislates to that effect, and even in New York City it is not uncommon to have republican mayors or governors.

    Part of the reason for the dysfunction of the electoral college is that the Founding Fathers, and especially Madison, underestimated the power of factionalism; it is an irresistible historical inevitability, as the immediate growth and intense opposition of the Democratic-Republicans and Federalists testifies.
    Good point. But regardless of party, the major urban areas would indeed determine the elections, I feel, due to increasing voter participation, even those who have no clue why they are voting for a particular candidate.

  6. #66
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Oh, and they're less corrupt now? Besides, two wrongs don't make a right, and the subject is the electoral college.
    Point is that appealing the Founding Fathers as a rationale for why we should or should not change the system doesn't make sense; they themselves were always disagreeing over the usefulness or authenticity of various features of our government and revised them themselves (see 12th amendment). The amendment process exists for this very purpose. Without the amendment process, the Fathers would never have adopted the Constitution, as many did so in the hope of changing things they did not like at a later point.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 07-21-09 at 01:34 PM.

  7. #67
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Well, like I said, it doesn't matter; the removal of the electoral college might constitute some kind of moral victory for populist types, but in terms of how the republican polity works, no function of our political system would actually change all that much.

    The electoral college in theory is supposed to protect against regional specific groups, whether a majority or minority, who are united in an interest which opposes the well-being of the republic in the long term (factionalism or its regional-specific variant, sectionalism). The actual explanation for how it does so is hard even for me to understand and cannot be easily communicated; it didn't work out well even in its own time which is why the 12th amendment overhauled the system, unsuccessfully to my mind since we ultimately had a Civil War anyway. The electoral college could never subvert factionalism or sectionalism, constants in every political system known to man and always present in the United States, as the federalists hoped; it is especially useless nowadays, when a universal media, highly developed transportation system, and mobile economy ensures that political ideologies are results of personality more than region. Simply put, liberals, moderates, and conservatives are lead all over the country, and while majorities exist everywhere, the electoral system provides a misleading estimate of where they are situated; some regions of New York State are very conservative, and put representatives in state legislates to that effect, and even in New York City it is not uncommon to have republican mayors or governors.

    Part of the reason for the dysfunction of the electoral college is that the Founding Fathers, and especially Madison, underestimated the power of factionalism; it is an irresistible historical inevitability, as the immediate growth and intense opposition of the Democratic-Republicans and Federalists testifies.
    The electoral college doesn't eliminate factionalism, it merely pits regional factions against each other. The 12th Amendment arose because of the unworkable nature of having the candidate with the second highest electoral vote serve as Vice President--it wasn't factionalism that was underestimated, it was partisianship.

  8. #68
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Point is that appealing the Founding Fathers as a rationale for why we should or should not change the system doesn't make sense; they themselves were always disagreeing over the usefulness or authenticity of various features of our government and revised them themselves (see 12th amendment). The amendment process exists for this very purpose. Without the amendment process, the Fathers would never have adopted the Constitution, as many did so in the hope of changing things they did not like at a later point.
    ALWAYS is over the top. One amendment does not constitute always.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    ALWAYS is over the top. One amendment does not constitute always.
    Actually, that there was disagreement among the Founding Fathers as to the best form of government is pretty much established history.

    However, that does not mean that the Founding Fathers would necessarily have been in favor of frivolous amendments for transient reasons. In that regard they were all a pretty conservative bunch.

  10. #70
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, that there was disagreement among the Founding Fathers as to the best form of government is pretty much established history.

    However, that does not mean that the Founding Fathers would necessarily have been in favor of frivolous amendments for transient reasons. In that regard they were all a pretty conservative bunch.
    You consider the 12th Amendment frivolous?
    Last edited by tlmorg02; 07-21-09 at 01:48 PM.

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