View Poll Results: Should Congress create an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

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  • Yes

    20 39.22%
  • No

    22 43.14%
  • Yes, but it could never get passed.

    6 11.76%
  • I have no opinion.

    3 5.88%
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Thread: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

  1. #211
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I don't really have a strong opinion on this, but I lean towards no simply because it isn't that big of an issue. The electoral college was created so smaller states could have more say in government, (just like the senate was created for that purpose). We have a very large country, and many of the states have different needs. But I don't know what to think about this issue.
    The EC wasn't created for that purpose though. It was actually created because our founding fathers were elitists who didn't fully trust the general public to choose the President.

    At least according to Hamilton.

  2. #212
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    The EC wasn't created for that purpose though. It was actually created because our founding fathers were elitists who didn't fully trust the general public to choose the President.

    At least according to Hamilton.
    I don't trust much of the general public either at times. But their voices are still being heard, the Bush case is the only case in history where the electoral college disagrees with popular vote. I don't like the electoral college because if people vote against who the state goes for, their votes will virtually not count in the big picture. But I am hesitant to change the system right now. Especially with all this ACORN controversy. Maybe in the future, but right now I'm not ready for that I don't think. I really have no strong opinion on this though.

  3. #213
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Well, the federalist papers are considered to be an argument in favor of ratifying the constitution. They, in effect, are supposed to lay out why the rueles contained therein exist.
    Well, yes, but the Constitution seems to contradict this one (or at least the parts that I bolded).

    Hamilton was either under the impression that what he said in #68 was the intent of the EC, or he figured that was the only way to keep the anti-federalists from gaining enough support to prevent it's ratification.
    I think that's being too generous. The argument he made clearly indicates a direct involvement of the people, something, as noted, not found anywhere in the Constitution. If F68 was intended to gain the support of the people based on the idea that said constitution woudl mandate that they have a say in elelcting th ePresident, he was misleading (at best).

    Either way, ratification of the constitution was heavily influenced by the arguments contained in the federalists papers. That means that items such as this, were the general consensus view of how it should end up being under the system.
    Well, OK, but I still dont see how this supports your 'the state ARE uneuqal' argument. All it really does is describe the process and imply that the people would participate.

    The one thing I've never seen in the Federalist or anti-federalist papers is the idea that the State legislatures should chose the electors without involving the people.
    However true that may be, the fact is they gave the legislatures plenary power to do so -- and thru the 1800s, many states legislatures took it upon themselves to do so.

    It is worded in the constitution that the legislators will make the final determination, but the arguments both for and against the EC have never stated that anyone but the masses should be the one's making the final choice on their electors.
    Which makes me wonder why that was not specified by the Constitution.
    Perhaps, as noted above, this was just lip service, indicating that there was no intention to involve the people, but the need for popular support to ratify the constituion, such an involvement had to be stated.

    My understanding of the EC coms frm both Federalist 68 and Anti-federalist 72. Like I said, I tend to agree more with anti-federalist 72 in general, but as long as the EC exists, I would have no issues if it worked as described in Federalist 68.
    The Constitution is not set up for it to work that way. I -love- to tell people that their state could decide to not hold an election and seat their electors based on a game of poker -- or just seat the guy from (the other party) outright.

    Either way is preferable to the current system, IMO. My preference of a proportional allocation for Illinois is more consistent with the anti-federalist view than any other option, but my willingness to accept the Maine/Nebraska system is in keeping with the Federalist point of view.
    That's fine. Call your legislators.
    Of course, given the other things they do you you out on IL, I'd not hold out too much hope.

    Both of these views are pretty much absent in modern politics.
    Indeed.

  4. #214
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I don't trust much of the general public either at times. But their voices are still being heard, the Bush case is the only case in history where the electoral college disagrees with popular vote. I don't like the electoral college because if people vote against who the state goes for, their votes will virtually not count in the big picture. But I am hesitant to change the system right now. Especially with all this ACORN controversy. Maybe in the future, but right now I'm not ready for that I don't think. I really have no strong opinion on this though.
    Actually, it happened with John Q. Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes and Benjamin Harrison as well as Bush. All of them had fewer popular votes but won their respective elections.

  5. #215
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I don't trust much of the general public either at times. But their voices are still being heard, the Bush case is the only case in history where the electoral college disagrees with popular vote.
    Only if history begins in 2000.

  6. #216
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    People don't feel that way at all. they feel, correctly, that a vote for a third party is a waste of time in the current system because the third party can NEVER get any EC votes.

    Unfortunately, as it stands, people aren't interested in regaining the country form partisan nonsense because they're more interested in who Angelina Jolie is blowing this week than they are in how the two party system has become a fetid mass of donkephant manure that engulfs the nation.

    Oh well.
    It seriously would make zero difference and it baffles me that you think it would. If a 3rd party gets a few electoral votes, then so what? They will still act as a spoiler and those electoral votes still could have gone to prevent whichever of the two parties you dislike more from winning.

    A proportional allocation of a State's Electoral college votes wouldn't apply to presidential elections?!??!?!

    Who knew?

    The Electoral College - Reform Options

    Please, if you aren't going to bother to follow the conversation, then have the decency to not bother replying.
    It should have been very obvious that I had started talking about another kind of proportional representation that actually would make the American government system better. It is, in fact, relevant to the discussion because the main reason we do not use proportional representation in Congress is the same illogical dedication to political districts instead of the the will of the people. Now, I do not think the will of the people is the best way of determining things, but it sure as hell makes more sense than doing it based upon legal entities such as states/districts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I addressed this earlier when I argued that each state shoud have one vote in the EC.
    Because the constitution says so is not really a reason.

  7. #217
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Because the constitution says so is not really a reason.
    "Beacause the Constitution says so" is "not really a reason" for an argument having to do with the workings of the government created by it?
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Only if history begins in 2000.
    The board is littered with people who think history began the moment they first became aware of something.
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, it happened with John Q. Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes and Benjamin Harrison as well as Bush. All of them had fewer popular votes but won their respective elections.
    Yeah, and when Hayes became President, the Supreme Court actually CHANGED the vote count of the Electoral College.
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  10. #220
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    "Beacause the Constitution says so" is "not really a reason" for an argument having to do with the workings of the government created by it?
    When discussing the rightness or wrongness of something, it is not at all important what the law says. The law does not serve as evidence for what is right or wrong. Using the law to try to determine what is right or wrong is backwards. You logically and ideally through evidence try to determine what is right or wrong and then try to get the law to follow it.

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