View Poll Results: Should Congress create an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

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  • Yes

    20 39.22%
  • No

    22 43.14%
  • Yes, but it could never get passed.

    6 11.76%
  • I have no opinion.

    3 5.88%
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Thread: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

  1. #201
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    In a tie-breaker. In all other aspects, California has more value.
    In the house, CA has no value. In the Senate, CA has equal value.
    ONLY in the EC does CA have more value, the exception to the rule.
    But, thank you for admitting that your example supports my position.

    It means that proportionally, they are represented. It is not about their WILL being represented, it's about THEM being represented.
    Unsound. If the people were to be represened in the election of the Predient, the simplest way to do this is for them to elect the president.
    You mentioned Occam?

    They are only equal if there is need for a tie-breaker vote.
    On the contrary -- they are eqial in ALL other places, except the EC.

  2. #202
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    In the house, CA has no value. In the Senate, CA has equal value.
    ONLY in the EC does CA have more value, the exception to the rule.
    But, thank you for admitting that your example supports my position.


    Unsound. If the people were to be represened in the election of the Predient, the simplest way to do this is for them to elect the president.
    You mentioned Occam?


    On the contrary -- they are eqial in ALL other places, except the EC.
    All I can say is See Federalist paper # 68.


    And for the record, I tend to agree more with Antifederalist #72 but since the EC already exists, I'd stick with Hamilton's description and go no further as far as decreasing freedom.

  3. #203
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Off Topic: Isn't this the very same debate we had when I first signed up here, Goobieman?

    Something tells me you and I are never going to agree on this one.

  4. #204
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Off Topic: Isn't this the very same debate we had when I first signed up here, Goobieman?

    Something tells me you and I are never going to agree on this one.
    Might be!!

  5. #205
    User C. Gerstle's Avatar
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Scrap the EC.

    In today's system, if you are a Democrat in a heavily Republican state, or vice versa, your vote will not count because none of the EC votes will go to the candidate you voted for. Everyone's vote should decide an election, not just the ones who voted for the state's favorite candidate.

    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -Stephen Roberts

  6. #206
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Might be!!
    Either we're both insane for continually debating this topic, or we both really feel strongly about it.

    Most likely, it's a combo of both.

  7. #207
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    All I can say is See Federalist paper # 68
    Interesting.

    It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture.

    It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.

    All these advantages will happily combine in the plan devised by the convention; which is, that the people of each State shall choose a number of persons as electors, equal to the number of senators and representatives of such State in the national government, who shall assemble within the State, and vote for some fit person as President....
    This paper touts the involvement of the people in the election of the President, and yet there is no Constitutional direction for the electors to be chosen by the people, or similar prohibition against the people from being shut out of the process. At BEST, the involvement of the people is specified to 4 degrees removed.

    So, I am not at all sure how this supports your cause.

  8. #208
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Gerstle View Post
    Scrap the EC.
    In today's system, if you are a Democrat in a heavily Republican state, or vice versa, your vote will not count because none of the EC votes will go to the candidate you voted for. Everyone's vote should decide an election, not just the ones who voted for the state's favorite candidate.
    Everyone's vote DOES decide the election.
    What you don't rcognize is that the election you vote in is the election of your state's electors, in which your vote counts exactly as much as everyone else's in your state.

  9. #209
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Interesting.


    This paper touts the involvement of the people in the election of the President, and yet there is no Constitutional direction for the electors to be chosen by the people, or similar prohibition against the people from being shut out of the process. At BEST, the involvement of the people is specified to 4 degrees removed.

    So, I am not at all sure how this supports your cause.
    Well, the federalist papers are considered to be an argument in favor of ratifying the constitution. They, in effect, are supposed to lay out why the rueles contained therein exist.

    Hamilton was either under the impression that what he said in #68 was the intent of the EC, or he figured that was the only way to keep the anti-federalists from gaining enough support to prevent it's ratification.

    One can never really know for sure if he thought that's what the intent was or if it was subterfuge to decrease support of the anti-federalists.

    Either way, ratification of the constitution was heavily influenced by the arguments contained in the federalists papers. That means that items such as this, were the general consensus view of how it should end up being under the system.

    The one thing I've never seen in the Federalist or anti-federalist papers is the idea that the State legislatures should chose the electors without involving the people.

    It is worded in the constitution that the legislators will make the final determination, but the arguments both for and against the EC have never stated that anyone but the masses should be the one's making the final choice on their electors.

    My understanding of the EC coms frm both Federalist 68 and Anti-federalist 72. Like I said, I tend to agree more with anti-federalist 72 in general, but as long as the EC exists, I would have no issues if it worked as described in Federalist 68.

    Either way is preferable to the current system, IMO. My preference of a proportional allocation for Illinois is more consistent with the anti-federalist view than any other option, but my willingness to accept the Maine/Nebraska system is in keeping with the Federalist point of view.

    My dislike for any state based winner-take-all system is primarily because it fits neither view.

    In truth, while I tend towards Anti-federalism, I can live with the views found in Federalism.

    Both of these views are pretty much absent in modern politics.

  10. #210
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    Re: Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College?

    I don't really have a strong opinion on this, but I lean towards no simply because it isn't that big of an issue. The electoral college was created so smaller states could have more say in government, (just like the senate was created for that purpose). We have a very large country, and many of the states have different needs. But I don't know what to think about this issue.

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