View Poll Results: Is Hate a Choice?

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  • Hate is a choice - a person chooses to hate

    29 63.04%
  • Hate is not a choice - hateful people are unconscious to their own behaviour

    6 13.04%
  • Hateful people have a mental illness

    4 8.70%
  • Hateful people have given up on themselves and no longer care if they are decent people or not

    3 6.52%
  • Hateful people deserve our compassion because they're in such bad shape as human beings

    5 10.87%
  • Other

    16 34.78%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is hate a Choice?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    but do you exhibit schadenfreude?
    I enjoy a certain degree of schadenfreude.

    I can be quite empathetic to some people's suffering, including strangers, but there are others that, when they get theirs, there is a degree of satisfaction to that.

    For instance, a man I worked with when I was in my early 20s sexually harassed me, asking for sex in exchange for preferential treatment at work, and then broadcasting my pregnancy and telling people that I would probably quit as soon as the baby was born. He was my supervisor. Back in those days, before Anita Hill, the issue of sexual harassment, as you know, was a difficult one. It could actually be more damaging to the victim than the perpetrator to try and deal with it legally through your employer. I put up with his nonsense until I changed jobs, just sucked it up, took it, and tried to do excellent work in spite of the rumors and allegations that he spread about me.

    When I heard a few years later that he'd been fired and civilly sued for sexually harassing a few other women on a subsequent job (and then had to file bankruptcy and was divorced by his wife), I must admit...I smiled.

    He got his. And karma is really a bitch.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-23-09 at 09:28 AM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    The issue with that being it would also make you a psychopath because we are the same person. But for me personally, I can't say I care if I am or I'm not. Whatever.
    Well, you are a cut-throat corporate type. You know what that means. I think that Wind has predetermined that I'm a psychopath based upon our previous interactions, because I tend to lack empathy towards HER. (I'm pretty empathetic towards most other folks, though, so I'm not too worried about her professional diagnosis).
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-23-09 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #153
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I enjoy a certain degree of schadenfreude.
    I think that's the whole crux of the matter here -- degree.

    If one defines schadenfreude in terms of taking SOME degree of satisfaction from the misfortunes of those up to no good, I think we are just talking about a normal human emotion, and one akin to righteousness. If we alter the parameters of our definition to taking extreme delight, and expand it to the point such delight is so thoroughly pathological as to include those who are not up to no good, then we are entering a whole different territory.

    I mean, there is a whole world of difference between enjoying the just deserts meted out to the bad guys in a movie like "the sting", and enjoying the suffering of the victims of a slaughterfest like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  4. #154
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I think that's the whole crux of the matter here -- degree.

    If one defines schadenfreude in terms of taking SOME degree of satisfaction from the misfortunes of those up to no good, I think we are just talking about a normal human emotion, and one akin to righteousness. If we alter the parameters of our definition to taking extreme delight, and expand it to the point such delight is so thoroughly pathological as to include those who are not up to no good, then we are entering a whole different territory.

    I mean, there is a whole world of difference between enjoying the just deserts meted out to the bad guys in a movie like "the sting", and enjoying the suffering of the victims of a slaughterfest like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".
    I think that the issue of degree is outside the parameters of understanding of at least one poster on this thread.

  5. #155
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I think that's the whole crux of the matter here -- degree.

    If one defines schadenfreude in terms of taking SOME degree of satisfaction from the misfortunes of those up to no good, I think we are just talking about a normal human emotion, and one akin to righteousness. If we alter the parameters of our definition to taking extreme delight, and expand it to the point such delight is so thoroughly pathological as to include those who are not up to no good, then we are entering a whole different territory.

    I mean, there is a whole world of difference between enjoying the just deserts meted out to the bad guys in a movie like "the sting", and enjoying the suffering of the victims of a slaughterfest like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".
    Taking some degree of enjoyment out of others suffering for a Buddhist constitutes a slippery slope. In most cases, it does not represent psychopathy, its just not what a Buddhist wants to practice.

    Most people are not Buddhists and consider their ill will toward others 'acceptable'. It is for them and it isn't for me, personally. I don't expect others to abide by Buddhist precepts. They aren't easy to follow even for me.

    When someone's karma ripens into misfortune because of previous causes I feel compassion a lot of the time. I've seen misfortune end up being great virtue for some people depending on how they respond to it.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-23-09 at 10:48 AM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I enjoy a certain degree of schadenfreude.

    I can be quite empathetic to some people's suffering, including strangers, but there are others that, when they get theirs, there is a degree of satisfaction to that.

    For instance, a man I worked with when I was in my early 20s sexually harassed me, asking for sex in exchange for preferential treatment at work, and then broadcasting my pregnancy and telling people that I would probably quit as soon as the baby was born. He was my supervisor. Back in those days, before Anita Hill, the issue of sexual harassment, as you know, was a difficult one. It could actually be more damaging to the victim than the perpetrator to try and deal with it legally through your employer. I put up with his nonsense until I changed jobs, just sucked it up, took it, and tried to do excellent work in spite of the rumors and allegations that he spread about me.

    When I heard a few years later that he'd been fired and civilly sued for sexually harassing a few other women on a subsequent job (and then had to file bankruptcy and was divorced by his wife), I must admit...I smiled.

    He got his. And karma is really a bitch.
    What you are describing here is simply a normal response. Because of his position he had it seemed managed to oppress you. That sure does not feel good. To hear he has been fired and sued for doing it to other people let you know you were not alone and also validated you that it was in no way your fault.

    I don't know if I would have smiled but in this situation I would have felt satisfied and possibly a little more empowered.

    I see no harm in this at all

  7. #157
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    What you are describing here is simply a normal response. Because of his position he had it seemed managed to oppress you. That sure does not feel good. To hear he has been fired and sued for doing it to other people let you know you were not alone and also validated you that it was in no way your fault.

    I don't know if I would have smiled but in this situation I would have felt satisfied and possibly a little more empowered.

    I see no harm in this at all
    I agree. There is no harm in catzpartdeux example. I think knowing that someone who had sexually harassed her and had been finally caught and sued for it is an example of fair play and justice.

    That's why I'm so glad there is sexual harassment law.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-23-09 at 11:19 AM.

  8. #158
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Everything is a choice. The problem is that people assume that even having to make tough choices relieves them of their responsibilities. Making excuses for the decisions that we ourselves make defines us as weaklings. We are born pure and become what we become through the choices we ultimately make.

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  9. #159
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    Re: Is Hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post

    I think that this moves over to the spiritual - that is that as we become able to be more fully the author of our own destiny, we become more in touch with our authenticty. Yes, self empowerment is the way out. You do not need to use the word God. You could say your authenticity, your genuiness, the person you were born to be, your potential.

    I think it is impossible for any of us to survive childhood without some damage, even those of us who are born to the most loving people but freedom of choice which requires self empowerment is the way out. Genuine self empowerment not the false empowment of the person who is so scared they have a need to control others. Being in control of ourselves but allowing others freedom to also be in control of themselves.

    How true that when we let go of that genuine responsibility for ouselves, when we for whatever reason are unable to make our own free choices, we leave ourselves open to other forces.

    Of course some people, indeed I suspect many people, perhaps even most of us are damaged so much that we need some help to get our control back. Your first illustration of the racists illustrates that. I accept that this was role play but imagining it was indeed a therapeutic situation - they were not conscious at first of what was the reason for their thoughts. Once they became conscious and only once they became conscious they were in a position to heal and have again free choice, becoming the authors of their own lives.

    Demons may be another word that makes people think this is just Christian terminology or in some way superstition, but what is said is true. To the extent we do not take ownership of our lives we are at the mercy of outside forces. To the extent we are not in touch with ourselves, we lack genuine self empowerment.

    I think that self empowerment is a process. Non of us escapes childhood with no harm. It is a road with blocks on the way which we need to address and heal - when all is well helping each other along the road - when all is not well, becoming vulnerable to outside forces.

    so I believe hate is learned and we forget why we are hating so choose objects that seem justifable to hate but when we heal, we lose the self loathing you brought up in your first quote and do not need to hate.

    Nicely said, Alexa. I agree with you over the terminology of the words "God" and "Demom". They are really quite symbolic words - words that people can relate to as symbols, even if not religious at all.

    For me, personally, I would probably swap the word "self-empowerment" for the word "consciousness" - but the two words are probably very well entwined all the same.

    I think the first quote is a good example of how a person's internal life (or unconscious life) can end up leading and dictating a person's emotions and actions - without the person being aware of what they do / or why they do it.

    In the second quote, I think Singer describes "depression" really well. The outside forces he refers to - I think are just the disowned and cut-off parts of the person. A person cannot resign themselves to life without getting some form of backlash from one's own self.

    It's ironic how a lot of hateful people come across very mean and arrogant, because the more I think about it, and after thinking more about the quotes, I think hateful people are probably a lot more miserable with themselves and with life - more than they are arrogant, mean, or that they are anything else.

    What a life... and how exhausting carrying so much negative energy around. Wouldn't wish that fate of being a hater on your enemies, I reckon.

  10. #160
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Hate is a choice. People can choose who they don't like.

    Hate is taught. Obvious.

    Hate is a natural instinct. You will always hate that which can harm you when it is directed at you.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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