View Poll Results: Is Hate a Choice?

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  • Hate is a choice - a person chooses to hate

    29 63.04%
  • Hate is not a choice - hateful people are unconscious to their own behaviour

    6 13.04%
  • Hateful people have a mental illness

    4 8.70%
  • Hateful people have given up on themselves and no longer care if they are decent people or not

    3 6.52%
  • Hateful people deserve our compassion because they're in such bad shape as human beings

    5 10.87%
  • Other

    16 34.78%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is hate a Choice?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    You asked me to provide a link for what I argued. This I did and also questioned on what basis you could believe a person could be born in the way you described.

    You totally ignored the material in the link and gave this somewhat rude reply.

    If you expect me to back up what I say then I suggest that you do the same yourself.

    And please do not be so patronising. I have indeed known at least one psychopath.
    I did not mean to offend you, be rude or patronize you. I come to my understanding of psychopaths by studying the work of Dr Robert Hare, an expert in the field. I asked you to read his work, and I wish you never run into another psychopath.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-22-09 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #132
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    But people with normal to high self esteem also experience it, right? So BFD. My self esteem is quite high and I love when someone gets their's. It's one of the great pleasures in life, actually.
    Enjoy it then. If getting pleasure comes from the misfortune of others, enjoy it. Exactly what kind of suffering of others do you most get off on?

    Lack of empathy is by definition one of the signs of psychopathy. Glibness, superficial charm and deceit are others.

    I find the idea of enjoying the suffering of others repulsive; that's just my opinon. I don't enjoy the misfortune of others, not even my enemies.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-22-09 at 07:08 PM.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    I did not mean to offend you, be rude or patronize you. I come to my understanding of psychopaths by studying the work of Dr Robert Hare, an expert in the field. I asked you to read his work, and I wish you never run into another psychopath.

    Thanks

    I appreciate that you have read the work of Dr Robert Hare and this makes you believe that people are born psychopaths. However as I do not have the book and no real wish to read it, I want to know how he can possible state that people are born psychopaths.

    As you have read the book and are saying this is the case please me know how he validates this claim.

    The link I presented to you illustrates someone who worked with psychopaths and if you had read the link you would have found that he did indeed believe he had cured them by forming a relationship and being there with them as they very gradually over a period of years gained trust towards him and were able to relive the traumas or as he put it frozen terror they had experienced which had caused them to lose their ability to feel and become psychopaths. This clearly contradicts what you said.

    Please let me know how Dr Rober Hare justifies his assertation that people are born psychopathic. I believe the work I illustrated is proof this is not true.

  4. #134
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Thanks

    I appreciate that you have read the work of Dr Robert Hare and this makes you believe that people are born psychopaths. However as I do not have the book and no real wish to read it, I want to know how he can possible state that people are born psychopaths.

    As you have read the book and are saying this is the case please me know how he validates this claim.

    The link I presented to you illustrates someone who worked with psychopaths and if you had read the link you would have found that he did indeed believe he had cured them by forming a relationship and being there with them as they very gradually over a period of years gained trust towards him and were able to relive the traumas or as he put it frozen terror they had experienced which had caused them to lose their ability to feel and become psychopaths. This clearly contradicts what you said.

    Please let me know how Dr Rober Hare justifies his assertation that people are born psychopathic. I believe the work I illustrated is proof this is not true.
    Since you are not willing to read his work we have nothing further to discuss. I'm keeping an open mind because the answer is not clear yet.
    Nice meeting you though.

    I have included numerous links to Robert Hare research and articles. Here is one:
    Fraud Magazine Cover Article - July-August 2008
    and here is another;
    A Reporter at Large: Suffering Souls : The New Yorker

    Here is another worth taking a look at for any interested poster;
    So says a new study carried out by Dr. Essi Viding of Kings College, London. Dr. Viding carried out his research using twins and found that psychopathic tendencies are highly heritable.
    New research on the origins of antisocial behaviour, published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, suggests that early-onset antisocial behaviour in children with psychopathic tendencies is largely inherited.

    The findings are the result of extensive research funded by the Medical Research Council, the Department of Health and the Home Office, and carried out by Dr. Essi Viding of the MRC Social, Genetic and Developmental Psychiatry Centre, within the Institute of Psychiatry, King's College London.

    Past research has shown that children with early-onset antisocial behaviour show problem behaviours for a variety of different reasons. One warning sign of vulnerability for antisocial behaviour is psychopathic tendencies, i.e. lack of empathy and remorse. Dr Viding's research looked into the factors that contribute to antisocial behaviour in children with and without psychopathic tendencies. By studying sets of 7-year-old twins, Dr. Viding and her colleagues were able to pinpoint to what extent antisocial behaviour in these two groups was caused by genetic and/or environmental risk factors.

    Mangan's: Psychopaths Born, Not Made
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-22-09 at 07:41 PM.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    The pleasure is in seeing someone get their's, not in random misfortune. Even random misfortune for someone you dislike may not fit the bill. Unless, of course, you dislike them because they are a thief and their car is stolen. That would rock. McCain lied during his campaign and ran awful campaign, but he's basically a good guy. So no matter who you supported it would seem odd to revel in his defeat. Watching Michael Vick lose his fortune for torturing innocent dogs was a pleasure for me. He got his. And if he turns his life around I hope he gets his back.
    Good point! I'll agree there is a distinct difference. I don't see Vick losing everything as misfortune, though. It was simple cause and effect. Losing your status after torturing dogs isn't misfortune- it's just the way it goes if you are a criminal and you get caught. Losing your fortune because a hurricane hits your house or something would be a whole other situation.

    I'll admit that since dogs are pretty much my world (except for my kid) that's a huge hot button with me. I don't hate the man, but I don't think he should ever be looked up to or given a chance to be a public symbol ever again. But, again, you're talking to possibly the biggest dog person you'll ever run across, here! I have lived and breathed dogs since childhood- I am obsessed, and have had and rescued and shown and raised and trained hundreds of them, and sacrificed just about everything to care for dogs. I probably can't be 100% objective here

  6. #136
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    It's interesting that some get through that "taught hatred" to go over to the other side, while some others seem to remain in a state of "hating" and do not seem to get past it. Unlike having chosen it, it seems more like something they get "stuck" in.
    That makes them sound like victims when they have a choice--to work energetically to let go of malice and hatred instead of holding on to it.

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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Since you are not willing to read his books we can't really discuss his work. Nice meeting you though.

    I have included numerous links to Robert Hare research and articles. Here is one:
    Fraud Magazine Cover Article - July-August 2008
    and here is another;
    A Reporter at Large: Suffering Souls : The New Yorker

    Here is another worth taking a look at for any interested poster;
    So says a new study carried out by Dr. Essi Viding of Kings College, London. Dr. Viding carried out his research using twins and found that psychopathic tendencies are highly heritable.
    New research on the origins of antisocial behaviour, published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, suggests that early-onset antisocial behaviour in children with psychopathic tendencies is largely inherited.

    The findings are the result of extensive research funded by the Medical Research Council, the Department of Health and the Home Office, and carried out by Dr. Essi Viding of the MRC Social, Genetic and Developmental Psychiatry Centre, within the Institute of Psychiatry, King's College London.

    Past research has shown that children with early-onset antisocial behaviour show problem behaviours for a variety of different reasons. One warning sign of vulnerability for antisocial behaviour is psychopathic tendencies, i.e. lack of empathy and remorse. Dr Viding's research looked into the factors that contribute to antisocial behaviour in children with and without psychopathic tendencies. By studying sets of 7-year-old twins, Dr. Viding and her colleagues were able to pinpoint to what extent antisocial behaviour in these two groups was caused by genetic and/or environmental risk factors.

    Mangan's: Psychopaths Born, Not Made
    I'm keeping an open mind because the answer is not clear yet. This post was meant to edit my post, not comment on my own post.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 07-22-09 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Babies come in brain damaged too. You are stuck on thinking in all cases, parents are to blame. Not with a psychopath.

    I am interested in the ethics of labelling you point out is dangerous.

    I do not use the label lightly.
    I am stuck on my thinking? Well, you seem to have a particular bent of thinking there, yourself. I said earlier that the subject of psychopaths would easily warrant an entire thread of its own, and since you have a strong interest in the subject, I suggest you start a thread for the sole benefit of discussing psychopaths.

    This is NOT a thread about psychopaths exclusively. I can understand your interest in the subject, and that's why I encourage you to start a thread about psychopaths, exclusively. It is a big subject, you obviously have many links to psychopathic bevaviour, etc... so an entire new thread discussing psychopaths would do justice to that.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is hate a Choice?

    I think its somehow a kind of controlled "instincs" ..

  10. #140
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    Re: Is Hate a Choice?

    I thought I'd post a couple of quite divergent ideas / premises around the subject / area of hate.

    The first, I think, is quite an interesting explanation / perspective of a look into the mind of a racist.

    The second is quite a polemic piece on the question of "choice" and of its implications:


    Interview with Ruth Williams and Andrew Samuels:

    On Racism


    RW: In Chapter 10 * you say that "racists actually want to eliminate themselves". I didn't understand that. What do you mean by that?

    AS: This came out of one of those political clinics. I have developed a method of finding out people's private reactions to political issues by encouraging them to imagine themselves as if they were therapists and to regard the political issue - racism in this case - as a client. The images that came up which were spontaneous although there was a group associative process of course were very much of completely empty landscapes, as if the racist does not want anyone to exist at all. So there was a great deal of what you might call self-loathing and self-annihilation involved in racism which I had not expected to find. And the audience people from groups concerned with ethnic minorities (I was very daunted because of course I'm not a specialist in anything) - they joined in on this and were quite shocked because their way of thinking was that the racist wants his country back, or he wants to own the land, repopulate it with his own type, not being able to cope with difference. So it was very revealing to see that the racist was actually totally self-annihilating as well.

    RW: I don't quite understand that.

    AS: I don't really understand it either.

    RW: I can understand the empty landscape with no one but the person of "pure race".

    AS: That's what I would have expected. That's what I thought we might find. But no. No one at all. Polar. Tundra. Nobody. Nobody. I can't explain it. We couldn't. But what it lead to was a very deep and fascinating discussion about racism that felt a bit new.


    * Politics on the Couch: Citizenship and the Internal Life - Andrew Samuels


    ***


    Isaac Beshevis Singer in an interview for Parabola Magazine.

    Singer remarks:

    I would say that behind all my ideas... is the freedom of choice. I feel that the freedom of choice is the very essence of life. We have one great gift from God and this is to choose. And we always indulge in choosing. If we pay attention to one thing, we have chosen to pay attention to it. If we love somebody, we have chosen this person for love. This is in every act of humanity. To me, God is freedom. And nature, to me, is necessity... When people leave free choice, the demons appear. The demons are in a way the dark side of nature which we choose. If we stop completely believing in our power [of choice], then other powers can come upon us. In other words, the demon to me is a negative side of free choice. Demons come when people resign themselves... when people say to themselves, "I'm not going to make any choices anymore. I will just let the powers work for themselves." It is then that the demon is bound to appear. The danger is always there - like a medical doctor who will tell you that the microbes are always there in your mouth and in your stomach, and if you become weak, they begin to multiply and become strong... Just as we are medically surrounded by dangerous microbes, so our spirit has always to fight melancholy and disbelief and viciousness and cruelty and all kinds of things.

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