View Poll Results: Are you willing to be fined for simply living?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    2 11.11%
  • No.

    12 66.67%
  • Don't care one way or the other. IT'S HEALTH INSURENCE!!!

    4 22.22%
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Thread: Are you willing...

  1. #1
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    Are you willing...

    ...to be fined, and if you don't pay the fine go to jail for simply living?

    Cause this is what will happen under the Democrats verion of the bill for health care reform.

    The Democrats' House version would

    require every American to have health insurance or pay a fine.

    •provide subsidies to help provide health insurance to households that make less than $88,000

    •and create a government run health plan to compete with private insurers to drive costs down
    abc News link

    If you don't think that it is as serious as what I am saying here then name me even ONE type of insurence that you are required to have no matter what.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    ...to be fined, and if you don't pay the fine go to jail for simply living?

    Cause this is what will happen under the Democrats verion of the bill for health care reform.



    abc News link

    If you don't think that it is as serious as what I am saying here then name me even ONE type of insurence that you are required to have no matter what.
    You are required to have car insurance in NJ no matter what. If you do not have it and are caught, you get a variety of consequences. Here are the requirements and the consequences for NOT carrying insurance:

    New Jersey Auto Insurance Laws

    Drivers in New Jersey have specific auto insurance laws they must follow. In addition to the law, you also should seriously consider obtaining coverage that far exceeds your state requirements – most insurance experts argue that for complete protection, you need to carry comprehensive coverage. To remain in compliance with the law, be sure your policy meets the following standards:
    Drivers have to carry three types of insurance in New Jersey: liability, personal injury and uninsured motorist.

    • Liability insurance covers the damage caused by your accident, if you’re at fault.
    • Personal injury coverage will pay for your medical expenses – whether you’re at fault or not.
    • Uninsured motorist insurance gives your protection in the event that you’re in an accident with someone who doesn’t have state-mandated insurance coverage.


    New Jersey (NJ) Mandatory Auto Insurance Minimums


    • Liability: 15/30/5 = Bodily Injury Individual/Bodily Injury Total Per Accident/Property Damage
    • Other Mandatory Insurance: Personal Injury Protection, Uninsured Motorist — No-FaultState
    • Regulations Regarding Proof of auto insurance: Proof Required - If Involved In An Accident, If Stopped By Authorities When Driving
    • Penalties For Not Carrying Mandatory Insurance: First Offense = Fine of up to $1000, License Suspension of One Year, Community Service

    New Jersey Auto Insurance Advice
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #3
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    Re: Are you willing...

    You're not legally required to drive, CC. Nor is it strictly necessary for survival, though in many parts of the United States it's close.

    Any legislator who suggests that health insurance should be mandatory and that citizens should be subject to civil and/or criminal penalties for not having health insurance, without actually providing health insurance to everyone who requires it, should be hauled bodily out of their offices and hanged on the front steps of the Capitol. And it is requiring a good deal of self-control to refrain from contiuing that that their entire misbegotten lineage should likewise be purged from within the membership of civilized society. There is no excuse for this kind of intolerable ignorance of the living conditions of their own citizens. **** their stupid laws and **** them.

    If they want to raise taxes to pay for their healthcare plans, for government healthcare plans, I'll support them. But passing a law that mandates citizens to pay for expensive services from third-party private businesses is unacceptable. Congress has already given those corporate whores far too many free lunches and it's about goddamned time we remind them that they are allowed to take our tax money to provide services for us, not to bend us over for the people who pay the bribes necessary to get them into offoce.

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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    You're not legally required to drive, CC. Nor is it strictly necessary for survival, though in many parts of the United States it's close.
    That's true, however, not driving severely limits one's options, depending on where one lives. One can make this analogy: if you want to drive, you have to have insurance; if you want to have good health, you have to have insurance.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I do not support a plan that requires one to be mandated to have insurance under penalty of law. However, if a government plan is instituted and someone opts out...which should be allowed, either they pay for private health care, they pay for health care out of pocket, or, if they cannot do either, the government DOES NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SUBSIDIZE THEIR HEALTHCARE. You want to opt out, that's fine. You want to exercise your rights and liberty to not pay into the government system, good for you. You have a serious health crisis and you don't have insurance and can't afford to deal with it...TOO BAD. THAT'S personal responsibility.

    Any legislator who suggests that health insurance should be mandatory and that citizens should be subject to civil and/or criminal penalties for not having health insurance, without actually providing health insurance to everyone who requires it, should be hauled bodily out of their offices and hanged on the front steps of the Capitol. And it is requiring a good deal of self-control to refrain from contiuing that that their entire misbegotten lineage should likewise be purged from within the membership of civilized society. There is no excuse for this kind of intolerable ignorance of the living conditions of their own citizens. **** their stupid laws and **** them.

    If they want to raise taxes to pay for their healthcare plans, for government healthcare plans, I'll support them. But passing a law that mandates citizens to pay for expensive services from third-party private businesses is unacceptable. Congress has already given those corporate whores far too many free lunches and it's about goddamned time we remind them that they are allowed to take our tax money to provide services for us, not to bend us over for the people who pay the bribes necessary to get them into offoce.
    Ummm...Kori. I would agree with you...without the violence.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #5
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Now, don't get me wrong. I do not support a plan that requires one to be mandated to have insurance under penalty of law. However, if a government plan is instituted and someone opts out...which should be allowed, either they pay for private health care, they pay for health care out of pocket, or, if they cannot do either, the government DOES NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SUBSIDIZE THEIR HEALTHCARE.
    I'll agree with this so far, except I'm not certain that I agree people should be able to opt out. If they want to pay for some other form of health insurance, or some other means of receiving health care, that is by all means their prerogative... but I'm not so sure they should have any more right to opt out of the government's healthcare plan than they can opt out of paying for the public schools. Certainly, if the government plan is available and the person is refusing it, the government should not under any circumstances subsidize their care.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Ummm...Kori. I would agree with you...without the violence.
    Sorry. I'm having a bad night.

    edit: Having a bad night and apparently not thinking too clearly.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 07-19-09 at 03:39 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    ...to be fined, and if you don't pay the fine go to jail for simply living?

    Cause this is what will happen under the Democrats verion of the bill for health care reform.



    abc News link

    If you don't think that it is as serious as what I am saying here then name me even ONE type of insurence that you are required to have no matter what.
    Are you willing to be fined for driving or owning a house? Of course those are choice-oriented, but you also have the choice of living! :
    Last edited by Cilogy; 07-19-09 at 03:47 AM.


  7. #7
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I'll agree with this so far, except I'm not certain that I agree people should be able to opt out. If they want to pay for some other form of health insurance, or some other means of receiving health care, that is by all means their prerogative... but I'm not so sure they should have any more right to opt out of the government's healthcare plan than they can opt out of paying for the public schools. Certainly, if the government plan is available and the person is refusing it, the government should not under any circumstances subsidize their care.
    I think the second part of your statement captured what I was referring to. I would see a government plan as an option, not as a requirement, with opting out a possibility. However, with a very affordable, or a tax-based government plan available, if one opts out and then does not purchase private health insurance, nor save enough money to handle their health care out of pocket, then they are out of luck. No government subsidies, no exceptions. Personal responsibility and all.



    Sorry. I'm having a bad night.

    edit: Having a bad night and apparently not thinking too clearly.[/QUOTE]

    Figured, that's why I pointed it out. Take care of yourself.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #8
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    Re: Are you willing...

    I think the people that would opt out of the government insurance program, shouldn't be taxed for it. If the government were to say "We are going to offer a government healthcare program, and if you enroll in it you will pay a certain tax to help fund it. If you do not enroll in it, you will not be subject to the new tax." That would be fine.

    But what this bill is proposing, is not simply healthcare for uninsured Americans, but a complete restructuring of insurance laws that will force everyone onto the government plan in the future, by way of bankrupting the private insurance market by forcing insurance companies to not be able to raise premium levels(at the renewal of a policy period, its already illegal to raise rates in the middle of a policy period for any reason) for unhealthy consumers of healthcare. Its to say, if the government made it illegal to raise the car insurance premiums of people with a bad driving record. That wouldn't make any sense would it? Thats what they are going to do to private health insurance.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  9. #9
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    Re: Are you willing...

    My husband's not insured, has never been insured in his life, and can't get insured (his workplace offers no insurance, private insurance costs too much, and he can't afford to switch jobs).
    I imagine we'll deal with this the same way we've dealt with everything else the government has thrown at us: simply refuse to comply. And if they try to levy a fine, we'll just refuse to comply with that, too. We'll leave them no option but to put us in jail, which they probably won't do because we're nobody important, just some struggling working-class people who don't own a thing except a couple of cars that were flat-out given to us as gifts. If they want to put us in jail for not being able to afford health insurance, we'll go to the media. We're pretty good at portraying ourselves as pathetic.

    This is more or less the same tack we took when the IRS came after us a few years ago for never having filed taxes in our lives. They weren't going to be able to do anything to us, either. They threatened to garnish our wages, we threatened to quit our jobs and go back to working under-the-table, which was what we'd already done for most of our lives. They only caught up with us because we got legitimate jobs.

    Ultimately, the only reason we decided to get on a payment plan and cooperate with the IRS is because I'm going to inherit some money and property someday, and if we were on some IRS ****-list at the time, they could probably seize it all. If it hadn't been for that, and for my family's concern over that eventuality, I never would've agreed to cooperate with the IRS in any way.

    We're very good at passive resistance.
    We will never cooperate with the plan described above, and the government will never be able to do anything about it, either.
    They'll discover it's too much trouble to **** with us.
    Last edited by 1069; 07-19-09 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Are you willing...

    I thought I remember you saying you had gotten some health insurance through your work, and you were going to "try it out". Is this no longer the case?
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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