View Poll Results: Are you willing to be fined for simply living?

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  • Yes.

    2 11.11%
  • No.

    12 66.67%
  • Don't care one way or the other. IT'S HEALTH INSURENCE!!!

    4 22.22%
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Thread: Are you willing...

  1. #41
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Although you pinpointed the ideological issue I was trying to identify, I would not support such a policy in reality.

    Refusing people immediate, life-saving treatment is not an option, even if they acted totally irresponsibly by opting out of government health insurance (which I DO NOT support in the first place) AND refusing to purchase private insurance.
    Why not?

    Are we really going to entertain the idea of letting a gun-shot victim expire in a hospital because they don't have insurance? I say, if society must subsidize the costs of certain kinds of health care then people who force such costs upon society should be held civilly and perhaps criminally liable. You'll recieve the treatment but once you're better you might:

    a. Owe lots of money - the irony of even being alive to pay us back notwithstanding.

    b. Face charges of criminal negligence. This would be prudent if:

    1. The person is incapable or unwilling to pay back the funds.

    2. The person was injured as a consequence of risky or irrational behavior.

    I SUPPOSE if people really wanted to, they could be given the option of refusing treatment in the ER. They'll be dead but at least the won't be in debt or dead, right?
    I would submit that those folks who would make the kinds of irresponsible choices we are discussing would, in reality, NEVER be able to pay back the money. OK, so we jail them. So? The government still has to handle the debt. Let private charities set up funds for folks like this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #42
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No part of this conversation was, is, or ever will be about emergency care.

    Let's be clear on that.
    So, just to clarify, you don't believe the government should mandate health insurance but you expect the government to pay for your emergency treatment regardless of whether or not you've purchased insurance? Is that correct?

  3. #43
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You have two choices. Pay for the healthcare that you need/want, or pay into the government plan. You may not want the government plan, but why should it be the government's responsibility to pay for your health care when you had options, and just choose not to utilize them?

    The plan that I am proposing is a personal responsibility plan. You don't like government healthcare? Fine. You have other choices. But if you do not choose them, do not come crying to the government to pay for your healthcare. I wonder how much money the government would save if MY idea was part of the plan?
    Why should I have to pay into something when I am quite willing to pay the bills myself? Say I had a heart attack tonight. (BO's HCP already being in effect..or yours) you would refuse treatment to me just because I don't have some kind of insurence? Even though I would be quite willing to pay the bill myself?

    You say that your plan is about personal responsibility but when you have someone that actually does take personal responsibility for their bills you are quite willing to refuse treatment to them just because they opted out of health insurence. That is not a plan that is based on personal responsibility. That is a plan based on punishment for not having health insurence.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  4. #44
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, just to clarify, you don't believe the government should mandate health insurance but you expect the government to pay for your emergency treatment regardless of whether or not you've purchased insurance? Is that correct?
    No I expect them to mail me the bill.

  5. #45
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Why should I have to pay into something when I am quite willing to pay the bills myself? Say I had a heart attack tonight. (BO's HCP already being in effect..or yours) you would refuse treatment to me just because I don't have some kind of insurence? Even though I would be quite willing to pay the bill myself?

    You say that your plan is about personal responsibility but when you have someone that actually does take personal responsibility for their bills you are quite willing to refuse treatment to them just because they opted out of health insurence. That is not a plan that is based on personal responsibility. That is a plan based on punishment for not having health insurence.
    You seemed to have missed part of my argument. If you have healthcare needs, under my plan, you would have 3 options:

    1) the governmental plan.
    2) a purchased private insurance.
    3) personal payment.

    You seem to be opting for #3. Nothing wrong with that. However, like I said, if you cannot pay, the government will not subsidize your healthcare.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #46
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No I expect them to mail me the bill.
    Me to. I want to pay my bills. I don't want the government to pay my bills. I don't want to be beholden to them or anyone else.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #47
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, just to clarify, you don't believe the government should mandate health insurance but you expect the government to pay for your emergency treatment regardless of whether or not you've purchased insurance? Is that correct?
    I don't expect the government to pay ****. Like Jerry, I expect the hospital to send me a bill. Which they have always done.

    But no hospital can know if you have insurance or not, or what your ability to pay is while you're laying bleeding to death, unconscious on a gurney. Thus, life saving emergency care isn't really in the equation.

    However, I do fully support any doctor and hospital's right to deny services to anyone for any reason.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You seemed to have missed part of my argument. If you have healthcare needs, under my plan, you would have 3 options:

    1) the governmental plan.
    2) a purchased private insurance.
    3) personal payment.

    You seem to be opting for #3. Nothing wrong with that. However, like I said, if you cannot pay, the government will not subsidize your healthcare.
    Guess I did. Sort of. One question just to make sure.

    Would you be willing to accept payments? Sorry but it kinda sounds like you want them to pay in full asap.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #49
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Me to. I want to pay my bills. I don't want the government to pay my bills. I don't want to be beholden to them or anyone else.
    Yup, and I'm sorry to have to cut people like Ethereal off, but this is not about denying anyone emergency treatment.

  10. #50
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    Re: Are you willing...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Why not?
    Because it's barbaric. Doctors shouldn't be fishing through an unconscious man's wallet in order to get his insurance information.

    I would submit that those folks who would make the kinds of irresponsible choices we are discussing would, in reality, NEVER be able to pay back the money. OK, so we jail them. So?
    Knowing you could face jail time for receiving free health care is a strong incentive to purchase insurance; this avoids having to mandate it.

    The government still has to handle the debt. Let private charities set up funds for folks like this.
    I agree, private charities should be the main pillar of health care, but in a plan such as the one I outline people must be held responsible for failing to protect themselves.

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