View Poll Results: Where would these events go as the occured? Check the ones DP would put in CT.

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Watergate Break-in

    4 36.36%
  • Moon Landing

    4 36.36%
  • Flight 800 Crash

    4 36.36%
  • WTC Collapse

    6 54.55%
  • Obama's Place of Birth

    7 63.64%
  • JFK/RFK/MLK Assassinations

    6 54.55%
  • The October Surprise (alleged deal of Reagan with Iran in 1980)

    4 36.36%
  • Flourine in Water

    6 54.55%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN?

  1. #11
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Debate over.
    Wrong. God hasn't come down and told Scarecrow he's wrong. Then the 'debate' and I use that term loosely will be over.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #12
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Debate over.

    Umm....last time I checked, pretty pictures from a biased media blog site don't count as a legitimate certifiable source and admissable in a court of law.

    The counter-conspiracy acts often fuel the original controversy and spin it out of site.

    Was the document ooohhhhh soooo conveniently photographed the original document, or was it the photoshopped document gussied up to counter criticisms of the earlier effort?

    Factcheck.org lost whatever credibility it may have had be taking sides in the last election.

    Similarly, the NTSB report on the collapse of the WTC can be argued to have provided as much fuel to new 9-11 Truther arguments as it did to present the facts of the collapse of the building.

    Guess what the Moon Unit people are going to be saying about the high quality Apollo 11 films recently re-discovered? And those are real films with, I imagine, traceability back to the LM itself. If the paperwork tracing those films wasn't lost, anyway. Otherwise, watch for the explosion, it will be fun.

    What needs doing to put the Obama Is An Illegal Alien story to rest, since he's spent so much time avoiding the simply process of releasing the actual document, is to allow a court case to come to trial, and present a CERTIFIED copy of the document into evidence, where it can be examined by professional document experts, and where the history of that document can be verified by direct questioning, under oath, by the clerk that pulled it out of the vault and copied it, and other similar issues.

    You can thank your boy for making the issue so cloudy because they were too arrogant to provide the document in a timely manner when it was first requested by the interested media, and then by producing what is still an obvioius fake. The pictures you show? Too little, too late, and will merely fuel more criticism.

    Example: Prove that document is real. Embossers and rubber stamps are easily obtained.

    Back pedal from earlier arguments, like "there's no crease because it's not mailed creased" as I've seen some say.

    The JFK theorists have fun like this all the time, even fifty years later they're arguing this and that. The Moon Unit people are damn creative, I give them that. Wrong, but creative.

    The Flight 800 people had fun with their missile theories. The fact that no missile was missing from the arsenal didn't bother them, they went right ahead and called every enlisted man and officer in the Navy a liar.

    What I see happening is that the Obama people are incompetent enough to make sure that their President follows Pope Joan. Was he, or wasn't he? Will pursue his administration forever, since they're mucking it up.

    Well, that's what happen when an imcompetent is put in office. If only this was the most important issue his incompetence is messing up.

    I'd say what you provided is the key step the Obama Birth Place issue needed to move from discussion of fact to discussion of wild-ass conspiracy. Because what you showed doesn't have any certfiable history. It needs to followed a documented evidentiary chain.

    I'm not being unreasonable here.

    I just know how politicians work, how Democrats work in particular (Franken "winning" an election with many precincts tallying more ballots than registered voters) and Chicago politicians most especially work.

    The history of fraud demands certifiable accountability.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 07-17-09 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Wrong. God hasn't come down and told Scarecrow he's wrong. Then the 'debate' and I use that term loosely will be over.
    No. I'm God and I don't talk to myself.

    The document presented has no certs.

    But then again this is a discussion about conspiracy theories in general and how you people react to initial news reports.

    Have y'all addressed any of that?

    What was your take on TWA Flight 800, for example? There's other places for the Kenyan President issue.

  4. #14
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    As I said there is no certified Birth certificate and there never was. What you and the reast of the disciples of your Messiah in Chief fail to understand is that is not a legal document and proves nothing about WHERE Hussien was born only that he was. Look it up. Why else does the Liar in Chief not speak oit on the subject? I'll tell you why. He can't and he sure didn't want this case to go to trail because he would be exposed this latest attempt to hide the truth onlt makes his lying rear end harder to believe. Besides he's lied about 99% of what he's said so far. I want to see on you tube where he said he was an American born in America and do it under oath. I have seen him admit he's Muslim.

  5. #15
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Umm....last time I checked, pretty pictures from a biased media blog site don't count as a legitimate certifiable source and admissable in a court of law.

    The counter-conspiracy acts often fuel the original controversy and spin it out of site.

    Was the document ooohhhhh soooo conveniently photographed the original document, or was it the photoshopped document gussied up to counter criticisms of the earlier effort?

    Factcheck.org lost whatever credibility it may have had be taking sides in the last election.
    I'll list you a series of articles from Factcheck prior to the election of '08. Please show me where these are biased in favor of Obama:

    1. FactCheck.org: Obama's Creative Clippings Part Deux

    2. FactCheck.org: Obama's Oil Spill

    3. FactCheck.org: More NAFTA Nonsense

    4. FactCheck.org: Running on Fumes

    5. FactCheck.org: Obama Polishes His Resume

    6. FactCheck.org: Obama's Lame Claim About McCain's Money

    7. FactCheck.org: Obama's Inflated Health "Savings"

    8. FactCheck.org: Straining a Point

    9. FactCheck.org: Obama's Work Claim

    10. FactCheck.org: FactChecking Obama

    11. FactCheck.org: Obama and 'Infanticide'

    12. FactCheck.org: Distorting McCain's Remarks

    There's a lot more, but you're getting the picture. It's readily apparent that Factcheck.org did not take sides during the last election. Their job is to either dispute the claims of a particular candidate if they find them false, or acknowlege them as legitimate if they are true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I'd say what you provided is the key step the Obama Birth Place issue needed to move from discussion of fact to discussion of wild-ass conspiracy. Because what you showed doesn't have any certfiable history. It needs to followed a documented evidentiary chain.

    I'm not being unreasonable here.

    I just know how politicians work, how Democrats work in particular (Franken "winning" an election with many precincts tallying more ballots than registered voters) and Chicago politicians most especially work.

    The history of fraud demands certifiable accountability.
    It's not unreasonable to question such a thing, I agree with you there. However, it's unreasonable to deny the facts. I presented you pictures from a non-biased website which clearly showed beyond the shadow of a doubt that Obama is an American citizen, and therefore meets that requirement for the office. The only thing unreasonable is to deny such a thing in the face of overwhelming evidence.
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-17-09 at 11:04 PM.

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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    So you are not trying to make a conspiracy thread about being a "Birther", yet that is all you want to discuss? Seriously, isn't some crazed right wing site like Free Republic better suited for you, there you can talk all the nonsense racist BS you want.

  7. #17
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    no, forgeries are not answers, still breaking news, or is it just broken news, in your opinion?
    Shouldn't you have to have evidence that something is a forgery in order to call it a forgery?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #18
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    I think that some of the users in this forum should only have an access to the CT forum.
    It'll make it much easier to sort the junk from the news.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    In line with the 'what did you think when it happened' flavor:
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    WTC Collapse: Upon first hearing this, I thought a plane accidentally crashed into the first tower. I would not have believed that it would have been a terrorist act. I cannot wrap my head around anyone who would kill themselves and thousands of others for the stupid reasons that they did, or expect any positive result to come from it.
    Around 9am, after PWN'ing some n00bs on Diablo2 to wide down from my over-night shift, I was listening to the radio while in the shower when news came of 9/11.

    My first thought was "ok, some drunken 'Nam vet piloting a single prop crop duster crashed into some...phone(?)...tower, big deal."

    I went to bed.

    It was only while listening to the radio while at work the following night that I learned something called "the world trade centers" even existed, that these were large jet liners, and it was a terrorist attack.

    And it wasn't until I got home that morning and looked all these things up online that I understood exactly what happened.

    That was the day I woke up and started paying attention to the world.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-18-09 at 10:35 AM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Which of the Following Would DP Count As Conspiracy Theories and Keep From the BN

    Some of these things involve multiple, often conflicting, hypotheses...some more retarded than others. So it's difficult to answer your question if they would count as "conspiracy theories" unless I know what you're actually talking about. Normally I wouldn't relegate something to the conspiracy theory forum unless it's howling-at-the-moon lunacy and is extremely unlikely. If someone wants to accuse a government or politician of doing something bad (even if it involves a conspiracy), I don't think it belongs in the "conspiracy theory" forum persay, as long as it's plausible and hasn't been discredited.

    Watergate Break-in
    This was certainly a conspiracy, but it has all the trademarks of a real-world conspiracy, rather than a wild conspiracy that internet nuts cook up. It was poorly executed, it accomplished little, and the actual goals of the conspiracy were pretty uninteresting.

    Moon Landing
    If you're referring to the belief that the moon landing was faked, yes, that's certainly a conspiracy theory. It's ridiculous.

    Flight 800 Crash
    I don't know enough about it to judge.

    WTC Collapse
    This was a conspiracy in the real-world sense: 19 terrorists conspired with a few other people to commit a terrorist act. If you're referring to the various retardedness about the government planning 9/11 or shape charges blowing up the building, then those belong in the conspiracy theory forum.

    Obama's Place of Birth
    If you think it's anywhere other than the place where all the evidence indicates it was, then yes, this belongs in the conspiracy theory forum.

    JFK/RFK/MLK Assassinations
    Eh...it depends what you mean. I haven't heard too many RFK/MLK assassination conspiracy theories, so I can't judge those too much. As for JFK assassination theories...yes, I think most of them belong in the conspiracy theory forum. Is it possible that Lee Harvey Oswald had outside help? I suppose it's possible that he had a couple people assisting him with the plan (but certainly not huge influential factions). But I think the most plausible theory is that he acted alone.

    The October Surprise (alleged deal of Reagan with Iran in 1980)
    Eh, this is probably a conspiracy theory. For the simple reason that it's almost impossible to execute a grand conspiracy involving so many people, without a single person blowing your cover.

    Flourine in Water
    You mean the sap-and-impurify-our-precious-bodily-fluids thing? Yes, obviously that's a conspiracy theory.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-18-09 at 02:06 PM.
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