View Poll Results: Does this infringe on the right to have an abortion

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  • Yes

    26 42.62%
  • No

    35 57.38%
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Thread: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

  1. #21
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I said no....
    You edited your post while I was responding.

  2. #22
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Here's the way I look at waiting periods. I agree with Gobie that a right delayed is a right denied. To adjust for the discussion I will compare gun waiting periods to abortion waiting periods. There is an asserted right to own guns in the constitution whereas Roe v. Wade implied a right to abortions, I don't personally care if abortion is legal or not, it should be left to the states or be allowed federally via an actual amendment to the constitution, this being said, there is no right to abortion in the correct sense.
    Next, let's look at the reasons for waiting periods, they are there to provide a cooling off period in the case that someone would otherwise commit a bad act in the heat of passion.
    here is where it gets interesting:
    1) A heat of passion crime usually takes place within 5 minutes and is done with whatever happens to be handy at the time, this means any weapon necessary, someone driving to the gun shop and purchasing the weapon will probably attain the sanity moment before the ink is put to the first of the paperwork, by the time the ATF check is done, any act commited after that was going to happen, someone may even come to a last minute moment of clarity and realize that something as horrendous as murder is not worth the guilt, sin(if religious), or criminal consequences and drop the issue. So the waiting period is not as necessary after the fact as it is on the surface.
    2) Abortion, well, you can't undo an abortion and from what I understand there is much guilt and depression felt by many who have one, so a cooling off period could be applied for the same purposes as above, and, I will guess that it takes less time to drive to an abortion clinic and have the procedure done than filling out firearms paperwork and having the information called in for the database check. If someone is dead set on killing another or having an abortion, the same logic would apply that it is going to happen.

    So where does ol' LMR stand on this. I really don't know and it isn't my business, but just wanted to lend some observations to this discussion because it's actually quite interesting.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #23
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Under the terms of your argument, does "making it more difficult" create an infringement?
    Well, if anyone had the right to murder children, then yes, requiring them to wait to exercise that right would be an infringement, just like waiting periods are an infringement on gun ownership.

    Since no one has the right to kill babies, no, it's not an infringement.

  4. #24
    Count Smackula
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    You're saying that it's wrong for the government to interfere in a woman's decision to murder her child, and that an emotionally distraught woman is fair game for anyone seeking to prey on her in that state by pressuring her to have an irreversible fatal medical procedure done on her child immediately before she has the opportunity to consider the ramifications, her true feelings on the matter, or to consult with friends and family.
    In essence, yes.

    But, in many states, people are allowed to return purchases or withdraw from contracts up to three days after signing them..California exempts car sales from this, if I recall. So, what you're saying is that it's okay to protect people from salesmen, but abortionists and high pressure car salesmen are better than most so there's no need to protect women from them
    This bill is comparable to forcing everyone to wait 24 hours before they can purchase a car. I wouldn't tolerate anyone trying to "protect" me in such a fashion. You are supporting classic nanny-state behavior.

  5. #25
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The 24 hour waiting period makes it more difficult for poor women to have an abortion. For example, if laws are passed that outlaw abortion of any kind in South Dakota, a women would have to travel to a neighboring state where it is legal. If that state has a 24 hour waiting period it is going to increase the costs of the woman to travel. This may only be a minor inconvenience for women who can afford it, but could be extremely difficult for the poor.
    If they're so poor how the hell did they come up with the $300-500 for the abortion itself?

  6. #26
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If they're so poor how the hell did they come up with the $300-500 for the abortion itself?
    Sliding scale at Planned Parenthood.
    Wow. Am I awesome or what?

  7. #27
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If they're so poor how the hell did they come up with the $300-500 for the abortion itself?
    The same way they came up with the $ for their cell phones, their cable-HDTVs and their fingernails.

    But yes -- if you can afford $X for an abortion, you can afford $X/5 for a motel.

  8. #28
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I was giving an example. The same argument could apply to any number of states.

    "So what?" - I guess it depends. The only thing the 24 hour period does is make it more difficult for poor people to have an abortion, it really has no effect on anyone else.

    Does it make it an infringement? Probably not...but the bigger question is, Does it serve any real legitimate interest?
    It's considered a "cooling off" period to ensure the woman has thought about.

    Sure, the typical woman has already given it a lot of thought, but since pro-choice always runs to the extremely rare example, I will also.

    A 24 hour waiting period ensures that everyone has had time to digest the information and make an informed consent. The token inconvenience endured (not "suffered") by few is not enough to justify giving abortions to others immediately with out their informed consent.

    Anyone who's ever actually been to an abortion clinic can tell you that the woman will more than likely have to wait longer than 24 hours to get her appointment anyway. You can't just walk into any abortion clinic and get it don even if you wanted to.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-14-09 at 12:37 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If they're so poor how the hell did they come up with the $300-500 for the abortion itself?
    That would assume that I know every one of them personally now wouldn't it?

    You certainly are not going to try to argue that poor people never have abortions are you?

    If by your post you are seriously looking for me to assume a rationale I would probably argue that poor women traveling to another state to have an abortion scaped together enough money for the procedure (beg, borrow, steal).
    "A Man you can bait with a tweet can't be trusted with nuclear weapons"

  10. #30
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    Re: 24 hour waiting period for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's considered a "cooling off" period to ensure the woman has thought about.

    Sure, the typical woman has already given it a lot of thought, but since pro-choice always runs to the extremely rare example, I will also.

    A 24 hour waiting period ensures that everyone has had time to digest the information and make an informed consent. The token inconvenience endured (not "suffered") by few is not enough to justify giving abortions to others with out their informed consent.
    That assumes that most if not all women seeking an abortion decided to do so in the blink of an eye. That's rarely if ever the case. Adding an additional 24 hours onto the process is a meaningless gesture at best.
    "A Man you can bait with a tweet can't be trusted with nuclear weapons"

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