View Poll Results: Is banning tobacco products within the military going to far

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    43 91.49%
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Thread: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

  1. #61
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post


    They can say whatever they want? By the way, you just said what I said. Good job on failure to read and understand the written word.
    Yes, they can say whatever they want.

    They also don't have to sleep when told to sleep, eat when told to eat, etc like you stated.

  2. #62
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Interesting, what part of the military is going for the ban or is it some sort of committee made up of parts outside of the military?

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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate here (I don't really have an opinion on tobacco in the military), but I would think that use of tobacco would make people less able to handle the physical strains of their job.
    And, if they can't meet the physical requirements of their, they'll either make the concious decision to stop smoking, or they'll get kicked out of the service.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Interpreting the constitution is the sole job of the SCOTUS. That is what they are there for.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok...where does Article 3 of The Constitution say interpret?

  4. #64
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So thus personal responsibility doesn't count for much in your opinion eh?

    Define this for me in your terms.
    There is a popular Chinese maxim: "The hat is good, the shoes are good. However, if you put the hat on your feet, and the shoes on your head, then both become useless."

  5. #65
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    There's a better solution. If you choose to use tobacco products during your service, a certain amount of your pay is deducted and placed into an account to pay for future health care costs related to your use of a known carcinogen. If you kick the can during your service, that amount is then added to any amount given to your beneficiaries.

    Soldiers should not have tobacco restricted, but they should not expect us to pay extra for their associated health costs from a preventable cause. Thus, we leave the choice up to them with an added future cost to themselves.
    Such a plan is simply not feasible. For instance, how do you quantify the damage of cigarettes monetarily? How would the smoking habits of military members be effectively monitored? It just doesn't seem realistic.

  6. #66
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    I find it funny no, rather pathetic how OC wants to dictate to those who served in combat, something he himself is unwilling to ever do, as to what they can and can not do with thier bodies, with a legal product.


    I also find it pathetic how he cackles on about personal responsibility, but when I read my contract in regards to my VA care due to being in the 1st gulf war, no where in said contract was there a stipulation regarding the use of tobbacco... So his entire argument is a nonsensical cry fest disguised as an attack on the troops.. (pm me for more details on this).... Living up to the contract is "personal responsibility".....


    I just have to chuckle when non serving people think they have a right to dictate to those who served in combat.....


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  7. #67
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I find it funny no, rather pathetic how OC wants to dictate to those who served in combat, something he himself is unwilling to ever do, as to what they can and can not do with thier bodies, with a legal product.


    I also find it pathetic how he cackles on about personal responsibility, but when I read my contract in regards to my VA care due to being in the 1st gulf war, no where in said contract was there a stipulation regarding the use of tobbacco... So his entire argument is a nonsensical cry fest disguised as an attack on the troops.. (pm me for more details on this).... Living up to the contract is "personal responsibility".....


    I just have to chuckle when non serving people think they have a right to dictate to those who served in combat.....
    We should ban guns in the military, someone could get hurt.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  8. #68
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I find it funny no, rather pathetic how OC wants to dictate to those who served in combat, something he himself is unwilling to ever do, as to what they can and can not do with thier bodies, with a legal product.


    I also find it pathetic how he cackles on about personal responsibility, but when I read my contract in regards to my VA care due to being in the 1st gulf war, no where in said contract was there a stipulation regarding the use of tobbacco... So his entire argument is a nonsensical cry fest disguised as an attack on the troops.. (pm me for more details on this).... Living up to the contract is "personal responsibility".....


    I just have to chuckle when non serving people think they have a right to dictate to those who served in combat.....
    You're right that those who serve have a unique perspective. I must note that not everyone who serves has engaged in combat. I also must note that the statutes that the Department of Veterans Affairs follow are those created by Congress, and not every congressman/woman has served in the military, much less combat. My point is that one doesn't have to have served in the military or in combat in order to have an opinion on the subject matter.

    In 1998, Congress passed this statute:

    Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a veteran's disability or death shall not be considered to have resulted from personal injury suffered or disease contracted in the line of duty in the active military, naval, or air service for purposes of this title on the basis that it resulted from injury or disease attributable to the use of tobacco products by the veteran during the veteran's service.

    38 USC 1103 - US Code - Title 38: Veterans' Benefits - 38 USC 1103 - Sec. 1103. Special provisions relating to claims based upon effects of tobacco products - vLex

  9. #69
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Such a plan is simply not feasible. For instance, how do you quantify the damage of cigarettes monetarily? How would the smoking habits of military members be effectively monitored? It just doesn't seem realistic.
    While you are correct that it is somewhat difficult to predict the additional healthcare costs of tobacco usage (and monitor, well not necessary), why should taxpayers be forced to pay for healthcare unrelated to the service performed by soldiers? Under that logic, if a soldier gets infected with AIDs by sleeping around, we should pay for that independent of the fact that it was his bad choices that get him infected and that sleeping around was not part of the job.

    I know for a fact that you would get angry for having to pay increased premiums because people on your insurance plan couldn't stop feeding their faces with vast amounts of unhealthy food and not exercising. You get pissed off for being forced to pay for their bad lifestyle choices. Why is this fundamentally any different?

    Again, being a soldier does not absolve you from all forms of personal responsibility, unlike Rev's opinion.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #70
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I find it funny no, rather pathetic how OC wants to dictate to those who served in combat, something he himself is unwilling to ever do, as to what they can and can not do with thier bodies, with a legal product.
    Only because I have to pay for it. I noticed you did not want to talk about my other examples which are principally no different even though you would be angry if you had to pay for them. Typical. Either you are being dishonest (which is historically accurate) or you can't read, also historically accurate.

    I also find it pathetic how he cackles on about personal responsibility, but when I read my contract in regards to my VA care due to being in the 1st gulf war, no where in said contract was there a stipulation regarding the use of tobbacco.
    Where in your contract does it say anything about banging hookers and getting AIDs? Under your argument, anything not prohibited is legal and therefore should be paid for by taxpayers despite not being part of the job and being extremely idiotic to reasonable people.

    So his entire argument is a nonsensical cry fest disguised as an attack on the troops.. (pm me for more details on this).... Living up to the contract is "personal responsibility"
    lol. There's no contract for what you eat when you sign up for health insurance. Are you saying those who make everyone else pay for the third triple bypass surgery are living up to their level of personal responsibility?

    Let's see just how far of a grave you can dig for yourself.

    I just have to chuckle when non serving people think they have a right to dictate to those who served in combat.....
    Therefore, you think that soldiers should be able to do whatever and not be bound by any civilian conventions. That they are free of any civilian oversight. That they can and should expect civilians to pay for their bad decisions.

    Under Rev's idiotic line of thinking, get Aids from hookers and the taxpayers will pay for it despite you acting like an idiot.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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