View Poll Results: Is banning tobacco products within the military going to far

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    43 91.49%
  • NO

    4 8.51%
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Thread: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

  1. #41
    User JustinDeeMan's Avatar
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    As others have already pointed by the time tobacco usage starts to affect their health most of the people would have already retired from the military.
    Also a very good point
    There is a popular Chinese maxim: "The hat is good, the shoes are good. However, if you put the hat on your feet, and the shoes on your head, then both become useless."

  2. #42
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinDeeMan View Post
    Um. No.

    Imagine how many people will quit or not join because of this, also this is part of socialism government telling people that want to help their country what to do.
    Did you even read what I wrote?

    The government isn't telling you what you can or cannot do. It is informing you that you are free to do so but you must also accept the obligations of your choice. Furthermore, when you join the military, the government is essentially your owner. They tell you where to go, what to eat, what to do, when to sleep, you name it. You act like soldiers have lots of free will. They don't. Complain that the government will set aside from money to pay for your healthcare from your choice as socialism is nuts when that government indirectly tells you what you will do in your job and how you will do it.

    The notion that people won't join the military because it will cost them some pay for smoking is nuts.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #43
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    As others have already pointed by the time tobacco usage starts to affect their health most of the people would have already retired from the military.
    Which is my point. They made the choice that adversely affects their health (and taxpayers' wallets). It seems reasonable that they should accept at least SOME obligation to pay for a very unhealthy choice they made. If you smoke, then some money is accumulated out of your pay to defray the costs of your choice.

    Should a person who made bad lifestyle choices get to pay the same rate as someone who made good choices?

    Just because you joined the military does not mean you can forsake personal responsibility.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #44
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which is my point. They made the choice that adversely affects their health (and taxpayers' wallets).
    Then the solution is to ban VA treatment for smoking related illnesses,if it hasn't already done so. Not take out money for problem that may or may not happen.



    Don't insurance
    Just because you joined the military does not mean you can forsake personal responsibility.
    By the time most of these people will have suffered any smoking related illness they would have already retired out of the military.So your point it mute. In a military occupation you are more likely to suffer an injury or health problems from training or going to war,especially if it is a combat MOS or a MOS that requires working around dangerous equipment or just a dangerous MOS like EOD(89D) or a chemical operations specialist(74D).
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-18-09 at 11:35 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #45
    User JustinDeeMan's Avatar
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    The notion that people won't join the military because it will cost them some pay for smoking is nuts.

    We will see what the future holds.
    There is a popular Chinese maxim: "The hat is good, the shoes are good. However, if you put the hat on your feet, and the shoes on your head, then both become useless."

  6. #46
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Then the solution is to ban VA treatment for smoking related illnesses,if it hasn't already done so. Not take out money for problem that may or may not happen.
    Eh. I'm not a big fan of bans in general. Especially something that calms nerves during combat.

    By the time most of these people will have suffered any smoking related illness they would have already retired out of the military.So your point it mute.
    Except that retired military are often covered under military healthcare plans. Thus, the point is not moot. I thought that was common knowledge. Retired career military generally have their healthcare paid for under some VA plan.

    In a military occupation you are more likely to suffer an injury or health problems from training or going to war,especially if it is a combat MOS or a MOS that requires working around dangerous equipment or just a dangerous MOS like EOD(89D) or a chemical operations specialist(74D).
    Except that those are required activities of the job. Smoking is not.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #47
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinDeeMan View Post
    We will see what the future holds.
    If you are going to join an organization which prohibits what you can say, being forced to set aside some money for smoking is a minor issue, if an issue at all. The notion that choice obligations attached to smoking trump free speech IMO is certified class A crazy.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #48
    User JustinDeeMan's Avatar
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If you are going to join an organization which prohibits what you can say, being forced to set aside some money for smoking is a minor issue, if an issue at all. The notion that choice obligations attached to smoking trump free speech IMO is certified class A crazy.
    I would not join if I could not have the choice to smoke.
    The less choices people have in the army the less likely they will join.

    Next is you can not drink alcohol either.
    Last edited by JustinDeeMan; 07-19-09 at 12:23 AM.
    There is a popular Chinese maxim: "The hat is good, the shoes are good. However, if you put the hat on your feet, and the shoes on your head, then both become useless."

  9. #49
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinDeeMan View Post
    I am a smoker, I would not join if I could not have the choice to smoke.

    The less choices people have in the army the less likely they will join.
    This again questions if you even bothered to read what I wrote. Nothing I said constitutes a ban. What I said is that if you choose to smoke, then you have to accept certain obligations for your choice. You seem to think that joining the military absolves you from personal responsibility. My plan is if you choose to smoke, which are you free to do so, a small percentage of your pay is allocated towards future health costs stemming from your choice. No one is saying you can't smoke. Only that if you choose to do so, you take some responsibility for your actions.

    If people wanted choice in the military, they wouldn't join. You seem to have this notion that the military is like a club where you get to choose everything you want and nothing you don't. Tell me, do you think you can avoid boot camp because you don't want to do it? Do you think you can easily refuse orders because you don't like the choices given?

    Next is you can not drink alcohol either.
    Can I interest you in a dictionary? Your understanding of the word "ban" is highly suspect.

    If you are complaining about bans, how about you discuss how the military severely restricts what soldiers can say in public while in uniform? There's an actual ban there.

    For an self proclaimed "very conservative" person, you sure don't seem to think that personal responsibility is important.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-19-09 at 12:26 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #50
    User JustinDeeMan's Avatar
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    Re: Ban on Tobacco urged in military

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post



    Can I interest you in a dictionary? Your understanding of the word "ban" is highly suspect.

    If you are complaining about bans, how about you discuss how the military severely restricts what soldiers can say in public while in uniform? There's an actual ban there.

    For an self proclaimed "very conservative" person, you sure don't seem to think that personal responsibility is important.


    Well let's just tell the world when and were we are bombing or invading a place.

    What you say and What you DO are two different subjects.
    There is a popular Chinese maxim: "The hat is good, the shoes are good. However, if you put the hat on your feet, and the shoes on your head, then both become useless."

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