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Thread: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

  1. #31
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No. I never advocated the forfeiture of personal possessions; personal possessions are quite distinct from private property. In an oversimplified explanation, "private property" involves monopoly ownership and control over a resource substantive enough to employ hierarchical wage labor because others do not have access to it. Personal possessions are items (usually personal items) of a nature sufficiently trivial to not pose such a threat. For example, your watch would be a "personal possession," while a large watch factory that dominated a region would be "private property."
    And where does personal profit fit into the grand scheme of things here, or is that eradicated?

  2. #32
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    And where does personal profit fit into the grand scheme of things here, or is that eradicated?
    You'll have to define "personal profit" far more concretely if you expect a sound answer to that. Libertarian socialist theory doesn't necessitate the elimination of competitive market exchange, for one thing. Indeed, because of the conditions of wealth and market concentration in the capitalist economy, the market socialist economy is able to maximize legitimately competitive market enterprises through the elimination of monopolistic and more broadly oligopolistic conditions. However, I personally advocate communist economic structure, since I believe that markets are inefficient allocation devices that are outmatched by decentralized participatory economic planning.

  3. #33
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You'll have to define "personal profit" far more concretely if you expect a sound answer to that. Libertarian socialist theory doesn't necessitate the elimination of competitive market exchange, for one thing. Indeed, because of the conditions of wealth and market concentration in the capitalist economy, the market socialist economy is able to maximize legitimately competitive market enterprises through the elimination of monopolistic and more broadly oligopolistic conditions. However, I personally advocate communist economic structure, since I believe that markets are inefficient allocation devices that are outmatched by decentralized participatory economic planning.
    That's a very interesting theory. I want to do some more research on it before I form an opinion.

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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    That's a very interesting theory. I want to do some more research on it before I form an opinion.
    Try Peter Kropotkin's Anarchist Communism: Its Basis and Principles for a specific summary of anarchist communism, of course and the far more expansive An Anarchist FAQ for a far broader examination of anarchism and libertarian socialism as a whole. Anyway, I'm glad to see that your interest on this political message board seems to be learning rather than merely "winning" even when maintaining a fallacious position, as some have an excessive focus on.

  5. #35
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Try Peter Kropotkin's Anarchist Communism: Its Basis and Principles for a specific summary of anarchist communism, of course and the far more expansive An Anarchist FAQ for a far broader examination of anarchism and libertarian socialism as a whole. Anyway, I'm glad to see that your interest on this political message board seems to be learning rather than merely "winning" even when maintaining a fallacious position, as some have an excessive focus on.
    Well, I must admit that I am very pro-capitalist and very free market minded, however I try to give everything a fair shake, so as to at least have an informed understanding of both sides of the spectrum.

    As far as the whole "winning" thing, I can't remember a time when I saw someone concede that their point had been defeated, so it's a futile venture in my eyes.

  6. #36
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    hmmm...lets see:

    Religion: The Far Left believes that everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they choose...in their homes and in their churches. The Far Right believes that everyone is free to practice evangelical Christianity and that includes forcing the government to include it even in non-religious functions.

    Gay Rights: The Far left believes that individuals should have the right to marry the one they love and that no one should be denied basic human rights based on sexual orientation.
    The far left believes that the government should regulate who people can love and marry and believe that the government should help enforce infringements on civil rights.

    Reproductive Freedom: The Far left believes that the choice to terminate a pregnancy should be made by the mother and her physician. The Far left believes that the Government is in the best position to make that decision.

    Economics: The Far left believes that companies that enact policies that benefit American workers should receive incentives for doing so. They believe that companies should be able to make a profit, but not off exploiting the workforce.
    The Far right believes that companies should be able to make as much profit as they can, even if it comes at the expense of exploiting workers. Companies are in the best position to regulate themselves because they are inherently "good-willed".

    Healthcare: The far left believes that a country as rich as America can find a way to ensure that every citizen is entitled to basic healthcare.
    The far right believes that insurance companies and hospitals should remain "for profit" industries and should try to make as much profit as they can to reward their CEO's and shareholders.

    National Security: The far left believe that we should never forfeit our way of life and our values in order to achieve a false sense of security. If we allow terrorists to change our way of life, we have lost our soul as a country.
    The far right believe that we should forfeit our values, give government more power over citizen's and change our values and way of life to become more like our enemies so that we can fight them on their playing field.

    Yeah....I would say the far right is much more dangerous to the values of America.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    Well, I must admit that I am very pro-capitalist and very free market minded, however I try to give everything a fair shake, so as to at least have an informed understanding of both sides of the spectrum.
    But do you realize that free markets haven't existed, and minimally restricted markets haven't existed in an industrialized economy? Presently existing capitalism was built on the basis of state protectionist and interventionist policies, not laissez-faire principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    As far as the whole "winning" thing, I can't remember a time when I saw someone concede that their point had been defeated, so it's a futile venture in my eyes.
    I've done it and had others say the same to me. Ultimately, I don't think it shows moral or intellectual weakness as much as obstinately maintaining a false belief in the face of reason does.

  8. #38
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Both.

    They both tend to end up as dictatorships or something equally stupid.

    The most danger comes from a two party system where the parties involved are basically the same. We end up with no choice and more of the same.

    In the end we really do have the government we as a people and nation deserve.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    hmmm...lets see:

    Religion: The Far Left believes that everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they choose...in their homes and in their churches. The Far Right believes that everyone is free to practice evangelical Christianity and that includes forcing the government to include it even in non-religious functions.

    Gay Rights: The Far left believes that individuals should have the right to marry the one they love and that no one should be denied basic human rights based on sexual orientation.
    The far left believes that the government should regulate who people can love and marry and believe that the government should help enforce infringements on civil rights.

    Reproductive Freedom: The Far left believes that the choice to terminate a pregnancy should be made by the mother and her physician. The Far left believes that the Government is in the best position to make that decision.

    Economics: The Far left believes that companies that enact policies that benefit American workers should receive incentives for doing so. They believe that companies should be able to make a profit, but not off exploiting the workforce.
    The Far right believes that companies should be able to make as much profit as they can, even if it comes at the expense of exploiting workers. Companies are in the best position to regulate themselves because they are inherently "good-willed".

    Healthcare: The far left believes that a country as rich as America can find a way to ensure that every citizen is entitled to basic healthcare.
    The far right believes that insurance companies and hospitals should remain "for profit" industries and should try to make as much profit as they can to reward their CEO's and shareholders.

    National Security: The far left believe that we should never forfeit our way of life and our values in order to achieve a false sense of security. If we allow terrorists to change our way of life, we have lost our soul as a country.
    The far right believe that we should forfeit our values, give government more power over citizen's and change our values and way of life to become more like our enemies so that we can fight them on their playing field.

    Yeah....I would say the far right is much more dangerous to the values of America.
    Reproductive freedom? LOL........Is that what you're calling it now? Wow.......

  10. #40
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    Re: Which extreme is more dangerous to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Both.

    They both tend to end up as dictatorships or something equally stupid.
    Linear political spectrum, again. But of course, we've never seen libertarian socialism degenerate into dictatorship, since it's based on "voluntary collectivism at [a] regional level with no state involved," and we have seen its implementation, since, "[h]undreds of such anarchist communities exisited in Spain during the civil war period."

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