View Poll Results: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing them

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Thread: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing them

  1. #131
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    You're right, sorry, I'll amend my words:

    What, and miss a chance to look tough on terrorism, without actually doing anything to fix the problem?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #132
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    I would say so, all senators should be forced to read what they are voting on. Maybe this will prevent massive pork filled bills from being passed. I can't imagine Obama's healthcare bill passing if all the senators were forced to read the 2,000+ pages.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Hmm - should they be required to read it?

    I think that an individual reading it isn't really the problem - it's that they don't take the time to fully understand what's in it and they shove their juicy candies into it, too.

    If they don't read it line for line that's OK - I want them to understand EVERYTHING that's in it (even if that means depending on the LC's (Library of Congress) shortened version ONLY) and play less partisan-politics with it and be a bit more logical, mature, and at least make a good, strong effort to grasp the issue before voting and NOT use every single bill as a way to get their wanted-crap to slide in the door.

    The reason why I think reading it line-by-line is useless is because MOST bill refer to a lot of other bills and existing regulations, tax codes and so on - A LOT. I read through 1/2 of the Health Care bill and got tired of struggling to find out what all the other things were that it referenced - it really is a wild goose chase to track down everything and that's not each individual Congress member's job, either - that's is the job of their assistants, the committees and the Library of Congress.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 07-04-10 at 05:38 PM.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Hmm - should they be required to read it?

    I think that an individual reading it isn't really the problem - it's that they don't take the time to fully understand what's in it and they shove their juicy candies into it, too
    If they do not read it line for line then how do they know exactly whats in it?

    If they don't read it line for line that's OK - I want them to understand EVERYTHING that's in it (even if that means depending on the LC's (Library of Congress) shortened version ONLY) and play less partisan-politics with it and be a bit more logical, mature, and at least make a good, strong effort to grasp the issue before voting and NOT use every single bill as a way to get their wanted-crap to slide in the door.
    The LCs are not the ones voting on the bill.



    The reason why I think reading it line-by-line is useless is because MOST bill refer to a lot of other bills and existing regulations, tax codes and so on - A LOT. I read through 1/2 of the Health Care bill and got tired of struggling to find out what all the other things were that it referenced
    You do realize that most of these politicians are college educated and many of them were lawyers. Seeing how these bills they write affect the country and how they took on the job to write and vote for bills then they should read every bit of what they write and vote for regardless of how boring it is. If they can not understand the bill after reading then they should not vote for it and ask that it be rewritten in simpler terms.

    it really is a wild goose chase to track down everything and that's not each individual Congress member's job, either - that's is the job of their assistants, the committees and the Library of Congress.
    Seeing how assistants,committees and the library of congress are not elected and do not vote on the bills it is not their job to do the job of these politicians. It is the job of every elected official to read the whole bill before he votes yes for it. So what if some of those bills are the size of dictionaries and encyclopedias and contain rat lawyer speak. They can make the bills shorter and use layman's terms. And if it slows down things for them then good, they can prioritize.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #135
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    I have to say no to this one even though I know that is counter intuitive. Just reading a bill actually tells you only a tiny portion of what you need to know to vote on that bill. For example, take some minor everyday sort of bill that does something like modify the pesticide regulations for a particular type of crop. To really know what the best thing to do on that bill is you need to have a pretty extensive understanding of biology and chemistry, you need to have read hundreds of environmental studies relating to the topic, you need to have a working understanding of agricultural methodologies, you need to know the public opinion polls on the topic, you need to have read a number of books taking different positions, you need to have a comprehensive understanding of the existing legislation that relates to that area, you need to know the history of it, you need to know what other bills are being considered on that topic and how they will work together, etc, etc. Basically, you need to be an expert on that fairly narrow area before you can make a smart decision on the bill. Senators and representatives simply cannot be experts in everything. There isn't enough time in the day to read even the most crucial information to get sufficiently up to speed to make informed decisions on all those bills every day. So, they have no choice but to rely on their staff. Every senator has a staff of like 20 that do nothing by study up on various areas of policy and develop the understanding required to make a recommendation. What the senator needs to read is not the bill, but rather the recommendations and summary by his staff and similar recommendations and summaries by other organizations on the issue.

  6. #136
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I dunno, politicians have other stuff to do than to read bills.
    It'd kinda leave them no time for other kinds of work.
    Such as running for office and campaigning...and chasing women and boys(pages)....
    Our very conservative Mr Rage has something, and most here seem to agree.

  7. #137
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If they do not read it line for line then how do they know exactly whats in it?


    The LCs are not the ones voting on the bill.





    You do realize that most of these politicians are college educated and many of them were lawyers. Seeing how these bills they write affect the country and how they took on the job to write and vote for bills then they should read every bit of what they write and vote for regardless of how boring it is. If they can not understand the bill after reading then they should not vote for it and ask that it be rewritten in simpler terms.



    Seeing how assistants,committees and the library of congress are not elected and do not vote on the bills it is not their job to do the job of these politicians. It is the job of every elected official to read the whole bill before he votes yes for it. So what if some of those bills are the size of dictionaries and encyclopedias and contain rat lawyer speak. They can make the bills shorter and use layman's terms. And if it slows down things for them then good, they can prioritize.
    reading something does not mean that someone will understand it or believe in it. . . so I think it's a hollow requirement or expectation.
    I want them to understand 100% everything that's being voted on and so on - if for some the best way to do that is read the bill verbatim, then great. But for others reading a summary is ideal for understanding.
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  8. #138
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    You can't. But most laws have crappy enforcement. But it will prevent the times where some dip**** politician claims to have "not known" something was in a bill. Really? Here's your fine.
    PELOSI said we needed to pass the Heath Care so we could find out what was in it. Ried said of the Financal Reform passing, now we can see if it works. The more I watch Congress at work, the less I understand. Why can't laws be passed in increments instead of huge thousands of pages? Why not vote on things that everyone is going to agree with then hash out the rest?
    To just willy-nilly vote for or against a huge bill that is going to effect all our lives seems neglegent if not down right criminal.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    reading something does not mean that someone will understand it or believe in it. . . so I think it's a hollow requirement or expectation.
    I want them to understand 100% everything that's being voted on and so on - if for some the best way to do that is read the bill verbatim, then great. But for others reading a summary is ideal for understanding.
    You do realize that most of these politicians are college educated and many of them are lawyers, so they should have no problem understanding it. And if they read something that they do not understand then ask someone "hey what does this mean?" or better yet ask the author of the bill or amendment "can you rewrite this so that normal people can understand it and not feel like they are being deceived?". Much like it is a landscapers job to know how to use a lawnmower, edger, and other tools its a politician's job to fully read the bill and if he can't understand the bill and only then does he ask someone what does this mean or he does not vote for the bill.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-06-10 at 09:34 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #140
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    Re: Should politicians be required by law to read the bill themselves before signing

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You do realize that most of these politicians are college educated and many of them are lawyers, so they should have no problem understanding it. And if they read something that they do not understand then ask someone "hey what does this mean?" or better yet ask the author of the bill or amendment "can you rewrite this so that normal people can understand it and not feel like they are being deceived?". Much like it is a landscapers job to know how to use a lawnmower, edger, and other tools its a politician's job to fully read the bill and if he can't understand the bill and only then does he ask someone what does this mean or he does not vote for the bill.
    They DO ask people "what does this mean" - these people are their committee members and their various self-appointed research teams.
    Thye DO have it rewritten so people can understand it - this is the job of the Library of Congress - to rewrite the bill-jargon and summarize down into a similar but more simplified document.

    They do these things right now - but is it enough? Obviously NOT. The REAL issue is that they pass things you and I don't agree with.

    If they all came out and said "yeah, we've spent two weeks - including late night sessions - on the floor discussing and reading out loud the Health Care Bill verbatim, we all know what's in it now - and we support it!" - would the act of READING it make any difference to your support or opposition of it?

    If wouldn't, for me - they could all have read the damn thing. My problem is that they PASSED it. They can read it 'til the cows come home - it's what they VALUE and what they SUPPORT (or don't) that really has an effect.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
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